RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 The delay in 'old' product may be down to 'new' product, and Bachmann are keen to realise whatever profit they might make. Once tooling has covered their costs, then it goes to 'old' tooling. Uk model railways, in comparison to what the production factory makes, is miniscule. Hence the price & availability. To some production staff, making stock for the UK market is a 'pain in the bum'. Chinese gent No1:- Can you take down part XYZ-123, and put up tool No ABC- 567, for a quantity of 15 million pieces. Then, change that for the Bachmann job" Chinese gent No2:- "For how many pieces for the Bachmann job? Chinese gent No1:- " About 1,000, possibly 1,500" Chinese gent No2:- "Get away! You're having a laugh! I've been in meetings like that, where the Ford Escort XR3i tooling is taken off for something like a Bentley Mulsanne. As far as things like wagons & coaches are concerned, then I'd guess Bachmann are 'right on the case'. After all, it's where the big (better profit ) is made. Cheers, Ian. 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Isn't that the entire point of having a catalogue and a range of models? There seems to be an obsession that if things haven't sold out in days then it's a failure. It isn't. If ASDA or Argos sell out of an item they have failed. They probably sell more "little black steam locos" than you think. Just that nobody shouts about it like they do over the latest diesel in dayglo orange. If a Black 0-6-0 is a kin to a loaf of bread, then surely a Blue 47 is a pint of milk. Yet ones perpetually available, and usually heavily discounted, the other..is not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 First rule of business, know your market. "Sorry Mrs Jones, no breakfast for little Johnny, we've run out of cornflakes. But, I can let you have 20 Silk Cut, and a postcard from Nigeria". 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
classy52 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I just hope Bachmann 39-190 Network Rail BR Mk1 BG Brake Gangwayed Generator Van 'No.6262' is part of this announcement for release, I've had that on pre-order since October 2019...crikey!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DRS Crewe On A Mission Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, classy52 said: I just hope Bachmann 39-190 Network Rail BR Mk1 BG Brake Gangwayed Generator Van 'No.6262' is part of this announcement for release, I've had that on pre-order since October 2019...crikey!!! I'm fully with you on this mate. It was originally due July 2020 and then it's been pushed back time after time, month after month, and the last time I checked it was due Nov/Dec 2020, so hopefully we will see it this year. It certainly has been pushed back a fair few months. Kind Regards, Danny. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 47 minutes ago, adb968008 said: If a Black 0-6-0 is a kin to a loaf of bread, then surely a Blue 47 is a pint of milk. Yet ones perpetually available, and usually heavily discounted, the other..is not. If a producer has too much stock in this case, then they have failed. The producer cannot charge a premium, when the market is flooded. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said: There can't be any complaints about delays with this latest set of announcements. . You have been around here long enough to know that even if they were released tomorrow, there would be some complaints that it should have been yesterday Roy 1 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: You have been around here long enough to know that even if they were released tomorrow, there would be some complaints that it should have been yesterday Roy And 'Why didn't they announce it in advance because I've spent the money on something else because I wasn't expecting it for another year (or more)' 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DRS Crewe On A Mission Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2020 This isn't a wishlist but if their are some modern image items announced as part of the Bachmann Collectors Club range on Tuesday, I personally have a feeling that some or all of these models will feature: GBRf 47739 or 47749 in their unique liveries (I doubt that both would feature as Collectors Club Editions on the same quarterly announcement), a DRS 'Fade/Revised' 57/3 (from 301, 303, 304, 306, 308, 309 or 310), West Coast, Northern Belle liveried 57601 and 90024 in DB Malcolm livery. Kind Regards, Danny. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The other thing we could see is some more EFE rail items which are not reliant on space at Bachmann's own production facilities and from the last announcements seem to have sold well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I'm wondering if the Beattie Well tank will make an appearence in the EFE range this time. "Several new limited editions" spells existing tooling in new colours/numbers. Which equally hints a bias for locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) I would be dubious about another Beattie Well Tank. These, and the Adams Radial, are lovely locos and occupy a special place in the affections of enthusiasts of my generation, and we made special journeys just to see them! But from a model commissioning company's point of view, especially marketing, I'd be thinking that despite their long lives, they for the most of them in small numbers and very restricted geographically; I doubt many of those already purchased that are working on layouts are not there by permisssion of Rule 1. Those modellers who would be interested in buying one have mostly already bought one within the last few years and I'd say it's at least another decade before a new generation of modellers forms enough of a market to make reconsideration viable. Which is not what you want to hear if you are waiting for a new Beattie Well Tank or Adams Radial... That said, if you'd asked me at this time of year two years ago about the chances of any RTR producer coming up with any sort of GWR non-gangwayed coaches that were not B sets, I'd have just laughed. Within a few months they were on my layout, thanks to that nice Mr Kohler, so much for what I think might happen and the reliablity of my balls, crystal that is... Edited October 30, 2020 by The Johnster 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raetiamann Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I'd just like Bachmann to confirm dates for the Class 150s and 170s. Ages since they were announced. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robf Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The 150s should be April I think. As to the 170s, didn't they say they had been put on hold? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingTrainLover Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Honestly all I want is an update on the Hunslets. Last we got was what? 2 years ago? Given they clearly had the CAD at the very least quite far along given they gave us 3D prints of them, I would hope they have an EP by this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Ah surprise! The class 74 CADs were done and it has been fully tooled into production for the EFE range.... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted October 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, JSpencer said: Ah surprise! The class 74 CADs were done and it has been fully tooled into production for the EFE range.... Thats about the only hope the class 74 has. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said: There seems to be an obsession that if things haven't sold out in days then it's a failure. It isn't. They probably sell more "little black steam locos" than you think. Just that nobody shouts about it like they do over the latest diesel in dayglo orange. Jason Exactly. It's all about perception: Loco "A" with a run of 300 units, profit £10 per unit sold, flies off the shelves in 2 days flat = Perceived roaring success Loco "B" with a run of 3000 units, profit of £30 per unit sold, takes 3 years to sell out, with perhaps the last handful 'reduced to clear' = creates image of 'hanging around on shelves' + reduced price = "Ooooh, it must be a failure..." Neither of the above totally fictitious examples could be regarded as a 'failure', but it does show that things might not always be what they seem... Edited October 31, 2020 by YesTor 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2020 Bachmann have pulled pretty clever stunt here, which you have to admire them for. Reacting to a situation in which they had become a stale joke over excessive lead times, and in order to take the heat from complainers such as myself off, they devised the 3 month notification scheme, which has been a success both as a information board and as a PR excersise. We can with reasonably certainty say what models are going to become available from Bachmann in the next 3 month period, and as I am waiting for the 94xx whcih is due Nov'Dec, the information has been of considerable assistance to me in preparing a ring fence for the money needed to pay for mine, on pre-order from Rails of Sheffield; thank you for this consideration and kudos, blue box. But it has successfully diverted attention away from models that are in the pipeline but not yet on the 3 month notification. It may be some time before everything is caught up and I would think at least another year before Bachmann will announce any new items at all, which is a long time in a market where the basic principle for many model buyers seems to be 'bright shiny new thing make it all better'. This is a result of the Chinese factory booking slot nature of model railway manufacture; items have to be produced in batches, sold hard, and we have to buy them while they are available or be content to wait for the next batch, or trawl the 'Bay, where prices are likely to be inflated by demand. I suspect that Bachmann UK have taken a leaf out of Hornby's book and are planning all sorts of wonderful new items, and have possibly even made progress towards CAD drawings and production of some of them, but are playing their cards close to their corporate chest until they can announce them on the next 3 month list, about a year ahead. Just becuase they have not announced anything new for some time, does not necessarily mean there is nothing new that they are working on! But they are not going to be keen for us to know about it yet in case there are more delays and the PR disaster that long lead times engendered resumes. In this scenario, there is going to be all sorts of wishlisting and suggestions as to what the next move is, and with EFE now taking up a similar function to Oxford within the Hornby structure, another spaniard is thrown into the works of attempting to second guess what is coming over the hill, is it a monster, is it a monster. Hornby have performed well in the last two years in this respect, announcing models and very rapidly delivering them. The large prairie is out and established now, but seems to have been deliberately held back while the Terrier was rushed into production in order to head off competition from Rails of Sheffield, and relations between the two organisations are clearly still fraught. But, that apart, if Hornby said they are going to produce it and when to expect it's arrival, you can take that to the bank in a way that nobody 2 years ago would have done with a Bachmann announcement. There is another Hornby product that has been put back though, the HM8000 NFC DC control system which was originally scheduled for this summer but has been put back to next year. I have pre-ordered one, but doubt if this is going to be a mass appeal seller, and it may be that the company will quietly drop it. This is great spectator sport and good fodder for posts here, but as Stationmaster intimated, there is a serious element as well. The long wait for the 94xx has had a negative impact on my budgeting for the last 4 years; whie I don't wish to play the violin I am a poor pensioner on a very limited budget and have to spend very carefully on my hobby. Announcing a delivery date and then putting it back is a real problem for people in my position who do not have the resources to simply shell out for a model at the time it appears and have to plan ahead. At least Bachmann now enable us to plan 3 months ahead, but there is little information beyond that and long lead times are still a problem, though our attention has been cleverly diverted and the announcements keep the interest level up where Marketing want it to be. Froth is good for profit. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, YesTor said: Exactly. It's all about perception: Loco "A" with a run of 300 units, profit £10 per unit sold, flies off the shelves in 2 days flat = Perceived roaring success Loco "B" with a run of 3000 units, profit of £30 per unit sold, takes 3 years to sell out, with perhaps the last handful 'reduced to clear' = creates image of 'hanging around on shelves' + reduced price = "Ooooh, it must be a failure..." Neither of the above totally fictitious examples could be regarded as a 'failure', but it does show that things might not always be what they seem... Very good points. A loco that sells out in two weeks is a clear failure in my book! The company responsible will have lost an opportunity to make profit and lost a good bit of goodwill as well. But the 'bright shiny new thing make it all better philosophy that howls in protest if a new tooling is not done every 5 years or so, when the existing tooling is perfectly adequate and new tooling may concieveably reduce the fidelity and quality of the model, which is responsible for a loco that takes 3 years to sell being percieved as a failure, when it might well be a reliable profit generator and gives us a greater time window in which to acquire the model, is often a success in my book. In fact, I'm not interested in which models are successful, only in what is on offer, it's quality, it's price, and if I want it. I accept that a trade that makes reasonable profits for it's backers is A Good Thing from the perspective of a customer, but I'm not that concerned with it except as a background feature of my hobby. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 hours ago, The Johnster said: In fact, I'm not interested in which models are successful, only in what is on offer, it's quality, it's price, and if I want it. Ditto, I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't particularly favour one manufacturer above another either, because as you say it's the quality/accuracy of the model and whether I consider it something I either 'need' or 'want' that are the deciding factors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Markwj Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2020 I can only think that the much requested model must be a class 66 captain Tom as they have just produced some 66’s recently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2020 I have a feeling in my bones that a lot of folk are going to be smiling after a very big surprise makes its presence known from Bachmann next week. Gazumping time might be just around the corner and Santa could well be a very busy chap. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 12 hours ago, JSpencer said: Ah surprise! The class 74 CADs were done and it has been fully tooled into production for the EFE range.... Aha! If only there weren’t so much new stuff coming out, I might go for a Silver Fox model. If EFE were to do it, whoopee! Sadly, there’ll be a lot of caution after there weren’t enough orders for it to go ahead. Strange, with so many oddballs going into production. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted October 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: Gazumping time might be just around the corner Are they bringing out more houses then Mike. Who'd be an estate agent. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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