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LSL Blue Pullman HST


jools1959
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15 hours ago, jonhall said:

 

We did a few of the early FM tours before the coaches were repainted, the MKII's were well past their best, and I seem to recall the organisation left a lot to be desired, they remembered among my friends as F***ing Miserable Railtours...

 

 

We fairly regularly used Slough to pick up Hertfordshire/UK Railtours, it was easier to carpool from Kingston/Surbiton/Walton to Slough than get to Paddington so early in the morning. It allowed an extra hour in bed, and much more reliability than relying on the first trains into London.

 

I did look at the Blue Pullman tours, the S&C tour - 06.00 at St Pancras? Too early for the first train from Surbiton Station, three nightbus' changing Kingston, Putney and Hammersmith before hitting the tube, and arriving with about 20 minutes in hand? Are you really going to risk not catching a tour where you might have spent £800-1200 for 4 people?  then two hours on the train before the sun comes up?  Back to StP at nearly half past 10 (assuming its on time) having been travelling in the dark since just after 4pm? Hardly sounds like a good day out for Joe Public, perhaps sensible mid-summer, but not a couple of weeks into January.

 

Jon

Also suggests they have got really rubbish paths- Farrow under various trading names ran around 20 HST operated trips over the S&C and back via Hexham, the most recent one I went on left St Pancras at 0740, had 63 minutes in Carlisle and got back into St Pancras at 2044...

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28 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Not quite. If an MTU R4000 series engine that is under warranty is cold started it adds 100 hours to the engine clock, this on an engine that gets oil changes every 1000 hours and a half overhaul every 12,500-15,000 hours dependent on duty cycle and a full overhaul at double those numbers. So there is a cost to doing a cold start but in the HST install there is no requirement to do a half-life overhaul after three cold starts, I cannot speak for other applications current or historic. If you are running without warranty then you are very brave indeed, but can cold start as often as you like and overhaul it when you like!

 

What makes them so fragile? 

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1 hour ago, russ p said:

 

What makes them so fragile? 

Dunno, ask MTU! The frequency of overhaul and in particular the compulsion to use a different grade of coolant and to do the oil change every 1000 brought a bit of a culture shock when they began squadron service, and the economics of carrying out the extra maintenance offset the fuel saving vs the Paxman Valenta they replaced. Not that they would have got away with running the latter for too much longer as pollution became an issue alongside the fact they had reached full life and some of them were too fragile themselves. In hindsight the best option would have been a fleet of EFI (electronic fuel injection) Paxman VP185's, but that's a different story.

 

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On 07/11/2020 at 11:32, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

 Does Ayr, Troon, Kilmarnock, Kirkconnell, Dumfries, Annan and Gretna amount to the same enabling the same sized train to be filled- that was my point!

 

 

The first 3 are all fairly easy to access from Glasgow and the rest of the Central belt, by far the most populous area of Scotland. Presumably they couldn’t get platforms and paths from Glasgow Central as starting there and calling at Motherwell and Carstairs would make a lot more sense. 

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On 08/11/2020 at 12:43, russ p said:

 

What makes them so fragile? 

When they were designed the preheat would have been part of the specification. The resulting reduction of thermal stresses would allow other tolerances to be changed, and probably improving the power to weight etc.

 

Nothing wrong with that in itself, and fine if you can be sure that a suitable shore supply will be available wherever it's going to be shut down for long enough to get cold.

 

It's not fragility per se, it's just different defined operating conditions. Which has the consequence of limiting where and when it can be used.

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When they re-engined them they had a plan - they knew where they would be serviced, how often they would be run and where they would be stabled.

 

If they could save money by installing shore supply at stabling locations rather than installing pre-heating equipment on each engine then it was a good financial decision.  It's not as if HSTs sat around getting cold and when they did they would be at a known stabling point where the shore supply existed.

 

They would not have planned in something for post main line TOC Inter City operations where the engines would be going cold without a shore supply, they expected them to go to scrap.

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39 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

When they re-engined them they had a plan - they knew where they would be serviced, how often they would be run and where they would be stabled.

 

If they could save money by installing shore supply at stabling locations rather than installing pre-heating equipment on each engine then it was a good financial decision.  It's not as if HSTs sat around getting cold and when they did they would be at a known stabling point where the shore supply existed.

 

They would not have planned in something for post main line TOC Inter City operations where the engines would be going cold without a shore supply, they expected them to go to scrap.

Just to clarify, each MTU engined power car does have pre-heat but it requires an external power source to run it (which can be a shore supply or the ETS through the train from a running power car at the other end). There is a switch which over-rides the pre heat when a cold start is needed and no supply is available for the pre-heat function but operation of that is what adds 100 hours to the clock on the HST install (and maybe writes the engine off after three uses in other applications that exist outside my knowledge according to an earlier poster). The TOCs just tended to leave them running anyway, they always had done as they were more concerned about reliability than saving the planet, fans of the Valentas will remember travelling through thick fog from Bristol to Bath, Leeds to Wakefield or other similar scenarios where a set has just come off depot having been on idle all night and was pumping out exhaust that had to be seen to be believed.

 

There was one Paxman engine HST power car fitted with a pre-heat facility, that was prototype 41001 whilst it was being operated by 125 Group. Their install used a burner which was ignited from the power cars own battery supply and used diesel drawn from the main tank to heat the coolant in the engine jacket for 20 minutes at a time (it would be used twice or three times before a start was attempted on a sub zero morning after a long period since previous start) and it was highly effective, if a little less flashy/automated. This install was purely to reduce engine wear, a Paxman will start in any reasonable temperature.

 

Edited by fiftyfour fiftyfour
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1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Just to clarify, each MTU engined power car does have pre-heat but it requires an external power source to run it (which can be a shore supply or the ETS through the train from a running power car at the other end)

Possibly explains a delay I suffered at Paddington a few years back. They said that they "couldn't start the power car for another 30 minutes" or something to that effect. There was a lot of chatter in my carriage about how they could possibly know that it wouldn't go now, but would in half an hour. If it was pre-heating from the other PC that would explain that.

 

Of course it could have been something else...

Edited by Zomboid
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  • 5 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
15 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Presumably it now has the appropriate higher-spec lights fitted, to qualify for the yellow warning panel exemption? I think it looks great though.

Yes, the additional headlight above the screen and current spec headlights (suspect they replaced the ones in the apertures that existed since MML changed them circa 2000) means no need for a yellow front, as per all the TPE stuff and other new units.

Inside it's total gash, FGW bum-slider e-leather trim remains, FGW retina-burn laboratory lighting remains, no table lights or other finesse such as additional partitions added.

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46 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

Inside it's total gash, FGW bum-slider e-leather trim remains, FGW retina-burn laboratory lighting remains, no table lights or other finesse such as additional partitions added.

 

So not a Pullman-style interior then? I have a feeling the Australian variant (XPT) has a top headlight in a vaguely similar position.

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20 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

So not a Pullman-style interior then? I have a feeling the Australian variant (XPT) has a top headlight in a vaguely similar position.

I was surprised when I saw the interior photo, there is no "wow" factor at all, in fact some earlier refurbishments were more classy in first class than the Blue Pullman, such as West Coast (Intercity/Virgin) and GNER.

 

The three NMT power cars have the top headlight as that is, I'm informed, a requirement to work on HS1.

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What they've added to the top of the Blue Pullman power cars is a marker light, not a headlight. It looks like the headlights have been upgraded too, they have the weird whitey blue look the replacement headlights on some 66s have, the MTU refurb HST style light clusters didn't have this, they were more incandescent looking. This would make sense given the lack of yellow end.

 

The top light on the 92s is a headlight not a marker, and as built was for running in the channel tunnel, I believe.

DB vs GB (92014) class 92 cab controls

it's individually switched, see the link from Flickr. Note the wording on the switches, it's a headlight not a marker. 66s, Pendolinos, NMT, Blue Pullman etc all have a marker in this position.

 

 

Jo

Edited by Steadfast
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  • 4 months later...
Posted (edited)

Seen today on a Crewe-Carlisle return run.

 

 

 

There are repeat 5Z43/5Z44 paths in for the rest of this week.

 

Edited by newbryford
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  • 1 month later...

All trips advertised on Midlandpullman.com before October are fully booked, so it seems popular enough.  But rather surprising routing for this Blue Pullman in November - to Whitby from Barrow and assorted stations to Hebden Bridge.

 

So do they suggest can you do in Whitby - "During your stay consider enjoying the best fish n chips in Britain and walk it off by climbing the 199 steps that lead from the old town up to the ruins of St Hilda’s Abbey which dominates the skyline and inspired Bram Stoker to write his novel, Dracula."

 

Why on earth would anybody take the pullman dining service for lunch at the chip shop ?? 

OK, so it's picking up  from stations in Lancashire and Cumberland - stereotype or what?

 

All the same, I can't help wondering how economic it is to have this train doing a couple of trips a month.  Is it being used for corporate charters or something the rest of the time?  Or is it just unfortunate to be launching during Covid?

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

All trips advertised on Midlandpullman.com before October are fully booked, so it seems popular enough.  But rather surprising routing for this Blue Pullman in November - to Whitby from Barrow and assorted stations to Hebden Bridge.

 

Out of idle curiosity I also had a look at the website. Does anyone else find it slightly odd that the trip to Devon in August starts off by visiting several Great Northern outer suburban stations? Obviously these are just pick up points before starting the main part of the journey but they seem quite closely spaced compared to the equivalent stops on other journeys they are running.

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18 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Out of idle curiosity I also had a look at the website. Does anyone else find it slightly odd that the trip to Devon in August starts off by visiting several Great Northern outer suburban stations? Obviously these are just pick up points before starting the main part of the journey but they seem quite closely spaced compared to the equivalent stops on other journeys they are running.

Yes, and of all places, Slough too - one those stations would be very handy for me if I were booked on it, and it's going to Kingswear which I haven't visited for two or three decades.  

I hope I get to see it passing through my local station.  I did get a couple of photos of the 47-hauled blue pullman look-alike as it ran through Hitchin on the Up Slow, but this one looks much like the original.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Rumours of a shunting incident at LSL Crewe earlier today....

Saturday's Heart of Wales Pullman now has a green Staycation 43058 in place of 43055.

 

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10 hours ago, newbryford said:

Rumours of a shunting incident at LSL Crewe earlier today....

Saturday's Heart of Wales Pullman now has a green Staycation 43058 in place of 43055.

 

The wonders of risk management - don't just buy one HST, you never know when one of them might need to swap something out.

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