Mixed Regional Coach Formations

[Right Away]

There is an interesting photograph in the August issue of “Steam World” showing a passenger train at Birmingham Snow Hill in 1955. The consist has a GW Brake 3rd leading, followed by a Maunsell Open 3rd, some Mk1’s and further GW coaches; the BR coaches may/may not have been Southern allocated. Any thoughts as to how the train came to be assembled In this fashion?

 

[great central]

If it's summer time and an extra service, probably because the wheels go round

[Poor Old Bruce]

In the mid 1960s there were four different coach liveries: Maroon, SR Green, WR Brown & Cream and the new Blue & Grey (plus Pullmans of course). You could often see three and occasionally all four liveries in one train.

[Wickham Green too]

It's probably a little unusual to have one company fore an' aft of another but portion workings from two or more origins date way back long before grouping ......... in the case of Southern stock at New Street, it was probably assembled with Western at Oxford though anything could have worked through from the south coast to who-know's-where or vice-versa.

[Andy W]

If I remember correctly, there was at least one interregional train from Birmingham Snow Hill to the Southern Region which split into portions for two separate South Coast destinations, so this would be one possible explanation. However it was common for trains that couldn't work out and back in the day to have one set of stock provided by each of the two regions, even if it was a Saturday only service and that meant a set being left at the "wrong" end for a week. But the use of Mark 1s in 1955 really suggests a daily service, these then almost all newly built coaches were kept on frontline workings.

Another interesting point is that there must have been a fair few gangway adapters in use, as GW (and LMS) stock used British Standard gangways, whereas Southern, LNER and BR MK1 stock had Pullman gangways. The two types weren't compatible without the use of adapter plates. This tends to make the formation more likely to be one put together in an emergency when part of the train had been taken out of use, or portions had failed to meet up as scheduled.

Edited to add - an exception was normally the services from the West Midlands and Paddington to Ilfracombe, which used entirely Western Region stock.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Andy W

[Nearholmer]

There was the Birkenhead to Hastings via the Brighton Line and Folkestone/Ramsgate/Margate via Tonbridge, known as The Continental, because it originated as a link between Liverpool and The Channel Ports for Europe to USA travel, but latterly more holiday oriented. That was a daily, I think year-round, service which had two sets of stock, one GWR, the other SR. 
 

There were also Birmingham to Hastings trains, I think ‘summer dated’, possibly SO, and they seem to have used GWR stock - I’ve just been swotting-up on a late 1950s version of that train.

 

And, there were trains both year-round and dated, to Bournemouth and Portsmouth via Basingstoke.

 

So, without further info you have a rich choice!

 

My guess would be that it’s a WR rake strengthened for heavy demand or with a cripple replaced by the SR.

 

Did all the gangway connections match on those different coaches??

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Andy W said:

........ must have been a fair few gangway adapters in use, as GW (and LMS) stock used British Standard gangways, whereas Southern, LNER and BR MK1 stock had Pullman gangways. The two types weren't compatible ........

The Southern - and, I THINK, LNER - had a few vehicles specifically built with British Standard gangways for inter-railway workings.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The 7.35 am SX Birkenhead to Ramsgare was a right dog's breakfast. By Snow Hill the 11-coach formation was 

1 Chester to Hastings

3 Birkenhead to Hastings

2 Birkenhead to Ramsgate

3 Birkenhead to Margate (incl Diner)

2 Wrexham to Margate.

In theory the stock was provided on alternare days by the WR and SR, but by the summer season progressed and strengtheners added at peak times.

The SR had some sets with BS gangways on the outer ends of the Brake coaches for such workings to allow GWR and LMS stock to be added if required.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, Andy W said:

Edited to add - an exception was normally the services from the West Midlands and Paddington to Ilfracombe, which used entirely Western Region stock.

I remember travelling from Ilfracombe to Birmingham c1961 with the stock being mixed Collett and Stanier. At Taunton we were coupled to the Minehead portion which included Gresley stock. It sticks in my memory as it had some first class compartments complete with original LNER reading lights, mirrors, pictures and carpets with the LNER logo. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by TheSignalEngineer