Great Central Railway Class 5A - LNER J63

[Rob Pulham]

In an attempt to get caught up with my backlog of builds I have taken a leaf out of another modeller’s book and have decided to try to build one loco during the week and a second over the weekend. The idea is once I am on top of my back log of commissions, I will build my own stuff on a weekend.

 

Having made the decision a couple of weeks or so ago, I made a start that weekend on a GP Models Robinson GCR Class 5A. I previously built one of these for myself but finished mine as an LNER J63. Which the Class 5A became, when inherited by the LNER in 1923. This one is to be finished as a GCR example.

 

Upon opening the box I found that the gent that I am building it for had already supplied a few extras but after examination of the castings bag, it revealed that some of them were quite poor. I Although I replaced a few of the more vulnerable castings like Oilers etc. I don’t recall the castings in my kit as being too bad so I was a little surprised. An exchange of emails later had me placing an order with Laurie Griffin for a few items. The one casting that was in my view poor but not available anywhere as a replacement (that I know of) was the backhead. This is a resin casting and perhaps the moulds were worn from when I got my kit, as mine was perfectly usable.

 

When I saw the casting I recalled that lurking in a spares box was a piece of brass that I had cut to shape for a round top backhead prior to getting more information and making a second more accurate backhead for a 4mm scale loco around 12 or so years ago. I dug it out and to my delight it only needed a minor amount of filing and a few mm cut off the bottom, to be the right size/shape to replace the resin casting. What it did lack was depth, but that was overcome by soldering a curved strip of etch offcut to the back of it.

 

This is the original casting which aside from anything else is slightly lopsided.

 

 

This is what I came up with as a replacement which should pass muster in an enclosed cab.

 

 

 

Finally a side by side shot for comparison.

 

 

[Ian Major]

Hum Rob, I wondered where the backhead carved from a bar of soap by my 7 year old grandson  had got to. 

 

The replacement is an excellent piece of work.

 

Ian. 

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Ian,

 

Last weekend I managed to get the basic chassis together with the compensation beams. 
One thing to note if anyone comes to build one of these, is that all the spring layers go on the outside of the frames or they interfere with the compensation beams. Needless to say, I had forgotten this from when I did mine and the instructions are a bit vague in this area. Which meant that after making a really neat job of fitting them both sides, I ended up taking them off the back and adding them to the front.
The kit comes with one of the frame spacers in the form of a motor mount which I made use of in my original build but I left out because Brian (Wainwright) whom I am building it for, has supplied an ABC motor gearbox. It does mean that I will have to do something about the holes in the frames though.

 

 

 

 

[Rob Pulham]

Another good session at the bench on Saturday saw the wheels blackened and the Derek Mundy crankpins installed. I have to confess that I am not keen on them. I am not that comfortable with drilling such big holes in the Slaters wheels with the resulting chances of something going wrong. 
I enlarged the holes with the pillar drill and I also used the pillar drill to push home the crank pins to keep them vertical and despite that one of them wasn’t in square and needed a little tweak. 

 

 
Next up was the coupling and connecting rods, there is a diagram in the instructions on how to cut the coupling rod layers to allow them to articulate on the crankpin. Not knowing any better or having enough confidence to do it any differently that’s how I did mine. Sometime later, Steph Dale went to some trouble to post on Western Thunder a “how to” on cutting the rods to show me how to make them articulate as they should. 

 

Having stored this up for a rainy day I adjusted the cuts and made use of a couple of the spare part rods supplied to make them articulate behind the middle crank pin as they do on the prototype. 

 

There is an etched hole in the outer layer (presumably for a dummy pin) I used this to mark up where to drill the rear layer 6mm. Once all the layers were soldered together and cleaned up, I tapped the hole in the back layer 14ba. Then I threaded some .9mm nickel rod 14ba and made a nut from tube files to a hexagon. Once soldered to the threaded rod I was able to use a 16ba nut spinner to tighten it in to the rods making a nice neat articulated joint.

 

 

 

 

[D-A-T]

Very timely. Following with much interest as I have just obtained said kit. Being a coward I might wait until you have completed the build before commencing mine as you have much more kit building experience than me and might identify problem areas, ie the coupling rods already. 

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, D-A-T said:

Very timely. Following with much interest as I have just obtained said kit. Being a coward I might wait until you have completed the build before commencing mine as you have much more kit building experience than me and might identify problem areas, ie the coupling rods already. 

 

Is the kit currently available? I did hear that it might be coming back into production but you may have found a second hand old one.

[D-A-T]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Is the kit currently available? I did hear that it might be coming back into production but you may have found a second hand old one.

I didn’t know that.

But I wanted one and one became available on eBay and I decided to pay what was required. It was more than I anticipated so if it does become available again I may have paid an over the top price. 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

I didn’t know that.

But I wanted one and one became available on eBay and I decided to pay what was required. It was more than I anticipated so if it does become available again I may have paid an over the top price. 

 

I wish my memory was better but I recall seeing a note on a stand at one of the Gauge O Guild shows saying that the former GP kits had been obtained and that the Barnum would be coming out first, followed, possibly, by the J63.

 

The sad thing is that my memory doesn't run to which stand the note was on, so it is hard to check. A web search didn't reveal anything. I was hoping it was out again as I fancy one in 7mm. I may have to talk nicely to Mike Edge about the possibility of him enlarging his 4mm one to 7mm. 

 

Edit to add, searched for the Barnum carriages and found this....

 

http://modelbuildingservices.co.uk/latest-news/

Edited November 9, 2020 by t-b-g
To add content

[D-A-T]

14 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I wish my memory was better but I recall seeing a note on a stand at one of the Gauge O Guild shows saying that the former GP kits had been obtained and that the Barnum would be coming out first, followed, possibly, by the J63.

 

The sad thing is that my memory doesn't run to which stand the note was on, so it is hard to check. A web search didn't reveal anything. I was hoping it was out again as I fancy one in 7mm. I may have to talk nicely to Mike Edge about the possibility of him enlarging his 4mm one to 7mm. 

 

Edit to add, searched for the Barnum carriages and found this....

 

http://modelbuildingservices.co.uk/latest-news/

I’ve got the 4mm one by Mike Edge as well.

7mm is proving to be a little addictive. Wish I’d never started.

[t-b-g]

Just now, D-A-T said:

I’ve got the 4mm one by Mike Edge as well.

7mm is proving to be a little addictive. Wish I’d never started.

 

I work in both sizes too. I have already built two 4mm J63s, one from scratch and one from the Judith Edge kit for others, plus a half built kit for myself. Plus I have the Peter Denny built one on Buckingham. They are lovely little locos.

 

There must be a word for modellers who work in two or more scales, something politically correct but descriptive, beginning with bi-something. I keep telling myself that each is a back up to the other. If I get stale or stuck working on a project in one scale, a switch to the other is a good refresher and gets me going again.

 

 

[phil_sutters]

I expect that you already have seen this photo, but just in case you haven't 

 

[Rob Pulham]

Thanks Phil,  I used that photo or one similar to finish my own model. 

This is it before I weathered it.

 

Tony, the range has been obtained by a Gent called Tim Thistlethwaite (MBSModels) and you will have seen the note on the MOK stand at Telford. Tim posted on my thread on the Guild forum and said he's still working on the J63 but it will be ready at some point.

[Rob Pulham]

DAT, you may be wise to wait, there are a few other bit's that will be worth being aware of. IN my next post I will describe some frame spacers that are included on the etches but not mentioned in the instructions...

[Rob Pulham]

Next up was looking on the etches for all the bits for the cylinders and it was at this point that I discovered a couple more frame spacers that aren’t mentioned in the instructions. Thankfully they are quite easy to spring into place having trimmed the tabs shorter. As I was doing the first one I recalled having to do the same exercise when I built mine (and that was despite having Mike Cole’s build notes which seem to have been lost In the house move). What was more puzzling was where each one was supposed to fit within the frames. 

 

Thankfully all I had to do was look under mine to refresh my memory.
I have highlighted the two in question in the photo below.

 

The one at the rear is mentioned in the instructions and it needs the hole for the brake cylinder to be to the left as you look towards the front of the loco. 

 

In the apologies section in the instructions Garth apologises for there being no brake cylinder included. Having knocked one up from tube/rod etc. it seems that the reason for omitting it is that it interferes with fitting one of the plunger pick ups (and oddly the spacer had the hole for locating the cylinder in a vertical spacer which necessitated fitting a locating spigot in the side of the cylinder. I would have thought it much simpler to have made the frame space deeper with a fold line that would allow the cylinder to be fixed from the top. I am sure there was a reason why it was designed like that but we will never know what it was.

 

 

I consulted with Brian as to whether to add a wiper pickup instead of a plunger for this wheel and his view was that having gone to the effort of making the cylinder it would be a shame not to use it so a wiper it is.

Having sorted the frame spacers and the brake cylinder I moved onto the sandboxes and the cylinders themselves making reasonable progress. All in all a good weekend’s effort.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rob Pulham]

What a difference a day makes (or was it the night off and a bottle of cider?)
Yesterday afternoon I scoured the etches to gather up the 18 parts required to make the two crossheads. As always one of them was quite elusive and took a couple of searches before I found it.

After a little bit of testing to ensure I had them in the correct orientation they were soldered up. They are a very clever design and they were both done in just over an hour without any of the stress of fitting the splasher tops to the J6.

 

 

 

Following on from this I added the piston rods using some brass tapered clock pins that I bought a while ago. I then assembled the crossheads onto the slide bars and attached them to the motion brackets. 
This was followed by the cylinder wrappers and then after cutting short the crank pins I assembled the chassis with the coupling and connecting rods with a view to giving it a test run. 

 

Sadly, this is as far as I got because the Derek Mundy crankpins are so big on the front axle that they won’t clear the crossheads. Although the screw in caps are a reasonable thickness, I don’t think there will be enough meat in them to create the clearance just by filing them down.

 

At the minute I am pondering what options I have that don’t involve taking the crankpin back out of the wheels. My concern with removing them is getting them back in square without wrecking the wheels.

 

 

 

 

[D-A-T]

Thanks for the information so far.

Having read the instructions in detail several times and reread your posts on here I’ve concluded this kit is a step beyond my current skill level, and likely future skill level.

Therefore to avoid it becoming lost in that fabled modellers black hole , the “round tuit” cupboard I’ve decided to give someone more skilled than I the opportunity. Better that than my cack handed ruining of an excellent kit. I know he follows this thread so he may introduce himself in here soon.

Good luck with the build. I’ll follow avidly. 

[t-b-g]

11 minutes ago, D-A-T said:

Thanks for the information so far.

Having read the instructions in detail several times and reread your posts on here I’ve concluded this kit is a step beyond my current skill level, and likely future skill level.

Therefore to avoid it becoming lost in that fabled modellers black hole , the “round tuit” cupboard I’ve decided to give someone more skilled than I the opportunity. Better that than my cack handed ruining of an excellent kit. I know he follows this thread so he may introduce himself in here soon.

Good luck with the build. I’ll follow avidly. 

 

I don't know about being more skilled but I have been hoping to find one of these kits for a while and it will be fun to build, especially with somebody like Rob helping me to avoid problems.

 

Many thanks for passing it on.

 

Tony

[t-b-g]

Well the kit came out of the box this evening and I can understand why it might be a bit off-putting to somebody with not too much experience. It seems to have a few ideas that are possibly a bit over clever and complex, where something simpler would have done the job just as well. Even laminating the half etched overlays for the frames and the footplate can be a bit daunting.

 

Still, a few bits have been snipped off the etch and had the cusps cleaned off so technically she is started!

[D-A-T]

10 hours ago, t-b-g said:

Well the kit came out of the box this evening and I can understand why it might be a bit off-putting to somebody with not too much experience. It seems to have a few ideas that are possibly a bit over clever and complex, where something simpler would have done the job just as well. Even laminating the half etched overlays for the frames and the footplate can be a bit daunting.

 

Still, a few bits have been snipped off the etch and had the cusps cleaned off so technically she is started!

Glad it wasn’t just me reading to much into the instructions then!

Enjoy the build and it would be good to see the occasional progress photo or two.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, D-A-T said:

Glad it wasn’t just me reading to much into the instructions then!

Enjoy the build and it would be good to see the occasional progress photo or two.

 

If Rob doesn't mind, I could perhaps post some progress photos on his thread. That might make more sense to have both builds here, rather than folk having to look at two different threads. The first frame side was laminated this morning, so it really is started now. 

[Rob Pulham]

No problem Tony, the more the merrier. Are you using a motor/gear set or a combined motor gearbox? On my first build I used the motor/gear set supplied with the kit and utilised the frame spacer designed to hold the motor. On the current build an ABC motor/gearbox was supplied so I have left that frame spacer out.

 

Sadly I should have checked the motor gearbox fitting before scratching up the brake cylinder as that won't fit because it interferes with the final drive gear

[t-b-g]

5 minutes ago, Rob Pulham said:

No problem Tony, the more the merrier. Are you using a motor/gear set or a combined motor gearbox? On my first build I used the motor/gear set supplied with the kit and utilised the frame spacer designed to hold the motor. On the current build an ABC motor/gearbox was supplied so I have left that frame spacer out.

 

Sadly I should have checked the motor gearbox fitting before scratching up the brake cylinder as that won't fit because it interferes with the final drive gear

 

The kit came with a motor and gears, which are presumably to fit the spacer/mount provided, so I might give them a try to see how they perform. I do have a Premier Models motor and gearbox available for use if the supplied one isn't as smooth as I would like. The motor suplied looks more like something that would go in a big 4mm loco, so I am not sure if it will have enough grunt for 7mm but I don't see the loco doing more than pottering about with a few wagons, so maybe it will be enough.

 

I presume your first one was OK with the supplied parts, otherwise you would have been looking to swap them for something else?

[Rob Pulham]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

 

I presume your first one was OK with the supplied parts, otherwise you would have been looking to swap them for something else?

It was and still is, it came with a Faulhaber  motor that is slightly smaller than an 18/33 but it performs as it should and pulls all I need it to.  The only issue I have with the loco is that I need to make the sound a bit louder and I just haven't got around to it. It's fine at home when there are no other sounds but you can't hear it at all when on a proper test track.

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, Rob Pulham said:

It was and still is, it came with a Faulhaber  motor that is slightly smaller than an 18/33 but it performs as it should and pulls all I need it to.  The only issue I have with the loco is that I need to make the sound a bit louder and I just haven't got around to it. It's fine at home when there are no other sounds but you can't hear it at all when on a proper test track.

 

Mine has a Buhler motor, which I haven't tested yet but looks half decent but the gears are good old fashioned Romfords. I stopped using them in 4mm some time ago in favour of more sophisticated gears but I do recall that some of the smaller reduction ones were not too bad. I will give them a try and be prepared for plan B if necessary.

 

I am considering changing the spacers with the captive screws to make them able to come out by omitting the retainers for the captive screws. I can imagine that there will be times during construction when laying the frames upside down on the bench might be useful and the screws sticking up will make that awkward. I can't see any downside other than being able to lose the screws!

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Tony,

 

Ahh now you have refreshed my memory, mine is a Buhler too, not Faulhaber as I suggested.  I should imaging that they will be the same if supplied by Garth with the original kit. 

 

I must admit I haven't found the captive screws an issue but to be fair I do have several smallish lumps of plywood and hardwood on my bench which I use constantly to rest things on, drill into etc. so I don't even think about it. I have a couple of plastic clamps that I use to clamp one or more of the blocks to the bench to push against to close up gaps etc when soldering.