EFE Rail Winter 2020 Announcements - Beattie Well Tank, Gate Stock, Class 58, Cargowaggons plus 2 new N gauge projects.

[grahame]

6 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

Before you all groan or put me in the stocks, this isn't a complaint or direct 'wishlist request' (as much as I would personally like to see it happen) but I would like to enquire about the feasibility of . . . .

 

 

Hmm, that reads like a thinly veiled wish list to me.

 

;-)

 

 

[NHY 581]

8 hours ago, Otis JB said:

Before you all groan or put me in the stocks, this isn't a complaint or direct 'wishlist request' (as much as I would personally like to see it happen) but I would like to enquire about the feasibility of releasing these two models in their original (1894 rebuilt for the Well Tank) LSWR condition? There are quite a few models out there already like the T9, M7, Hornby brake van, not to mention forthcoming genesis coaches in LSWR guises so one would assume it's quite a popular avenue to pursue? Maybe there is some reason I don't know about such as different tooling requirements to explain why this hasn't been done yet but more LSWR models would really put a smile on mine and many others faces I'm sure.   

 

 

You'll probably find the answer to both your questions in the relevant threads for each item  on the Kernow manufacturers thready thing. 

 

The alternative is a seat at the stocks for a bit and people throw L&NER rolling stock at you. 

 

Not something I'd wish on anyone. Even a GWR modeller. 

 

 

Rob. 

[Oldddudders]

As has been said - this thread is about new releases.

 

If you want to debate future items or past products go here 

Had you even looked for that? 

[spamcan61]

10 hours ago, Mr chapman said:

Remind me again how efe works, is it one run and done? Or do these items stay in their catalogue? 

I think everybody works on the 'one run and done' basis these days, the only products that hang around for a while are the slow sellers.

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

As has been said - this thread is about new releases.

 

If you want to debate future items or past products go here 

Had you even looked for that? 

 

To be honest it might be an idea having a new thread for these in the EFE section. A lot of that thread will be dated and full of moans about irrelevant things. 

 

Even the picture I can see is a picture of a boat tracker which was about moans of them "being on a boat".

[Graham_Muz]

13 hours ago, Otis JB said:

Before you all groan or put me in the stocks, this isn't a complaint or direct 'wishlist request' (as much as I would personally like to see it happen) but I would like to enquire about the feasibility of releasing these two models in their original (1894 rebuilt for the Well Tank) LSWR condition? There are quite a few models out there already like the T9, M7, Hornby brake van, not to mention forthcoming genesis coaches in LSWR guises so one would assume it's quite a popular avenue to pursue? Maybe there is some reason I don't know about such as different tooling requirements to explain why this hasn't been done yet but more LSWR models would really put a smile on mine and many others faces I'm sure.   

 

 

This has indeed been covered in the depths of the relevant threads.

The Beattie well tanks were rebuilt twice before the versions as produced by Kernow originally and now for the EFE range. To produce any of the original versions would require a completely new set of tooling and therefore be a totally new model. 

Again the gate stock was rebuilt in the early 30's to the condition as being produced and would required new tooling rather then amendment of existing tooling to produce. 

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

This has indeed been covered in the depths of the relevant threads.

The Beattie well tanks were rebuilt twice before the versions as produced by Kernow originally and now for the EFE range. To produce any of the original versions would require a completely new set of tooling and therefore be a totally new model. 

Again the gate stock was rebuilt in the early 30's to the condition as being produced and would required new tooling rather then amendment of existing tooling to produce. 

And that market for accurate LSWR pattern locos and coaches must be massive, up there with accurate S&DJR coaches.

 

You can do them after you've done a range of Toplights to suit all the variations so far identified in any polls.

[woodenhead]

One has to hope that the disappearance of EOI for a King on KR Models is a sign that perhaps there was some sort of tooling started and perhaps there could be an EFEing King one day too.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Just a couple of queries about the Gate Stock. How long is a set (or an individual coach, for that matter)? Is it feasible to uncouple the set and use just one coach on its own? I've seen trains described as "a single Gate Stock trailer" but of course that might be a different type of coach…

[Graham_Muz]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Just a couple of queries about the Gate Stock. How long is a set (or an individual coach, for that matter)? Is it feasible to uncouple the set and use just one coach on its own? I've seen trains described as "a single Gate Stock trailer" but of course that might be a different type of coach…

 

The 1914 Gate stock as modelled are 56ft coaches and they did run as a pair.

 

However you can of course run just the driving trailer on it's own if you want, they models have NEM sockets at each the inner ends (and outer end of the trailer) to allow coupling by either tension lock couplings or using one of the supplied two lengths of coupling bar (depending on your layout curves).  

[thohurst]

Really glad to see things like the gate stock and well tanks! And its great to see Heljan's 58 in the EFE lineup. Hopefully more of Heljan's older, no longer produced models such as the Class 28 make it into the next lineup!

[Les1952]

Nice to see pics of the Mermaids.  I'll most likely have another couple to go with my four black DJ ones.

 

I note it is unchanged- riding slightly high is something I can live with, it looks OK from normal viewing angles for N Gauge.

 

However, they've missed an opportunity to make a massive improvement at zero cost- the couplings fitted are the standard length ones, which leave a giganticv gap between the wagons in a train.  Substituting short shank couplings makes no difference to the curves the wagons will run round- I tried mine on the 8.5 inch radius curves on Bregenbach before typing this- no problem.

 

I had mentioned this to Dave Jones who was "looking at" changing them on the second run that didn't happen.  Perhaps EFE can change them on their second run whenever it happens.  Meanwhile I'll just buy another pack of short shank couplings and do it myself...

 

Les

 

[D7100]

10 hours ago, thohurst said:

Really glad to see things like the gate stock and well tanks! And its great to see Heljan's 58 in the EFE lineup. Hopefully more of Heljan's older, no longer produced models such as the Class 28 make it into the next lineup!

 

Not sure about the class 28.

If I remember rightly that was a calabaration with Hattons.

Not sure who owns the tooling, but if Hattons have any rights to it i I would think it's unlikely to appear in Bachmann's arms length  spin off given the current position between the two parties. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Markwj]

17 minutes ago, D7100 said:

 

Not sure about the class 28.

If I remember rightly that was a calabaration with Hattons.

Not sure who owns the tooling, but if Hattons have any rights to it i I would think it's unlikely to appear in Bachmann's arms length  spin off given the current position between the two parties. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the class 14 was a hattons exclusive which Heljan then released so the class 28 may be a similar deal maybe where hattons have exclusive use of the tooling for a set time period then it moves to Heljan general use. I have no evidence of this just a thought.

[adb968008]

If we're guessing (rather than wish listing), of Heljans back catalog, to me the ones lesser seen are the 1 car DMU prototypes, Baby Deltic and class 52.

 

Whilst the 52 is left field and twice done, the Hymek has been thrice cooked and refried several times too, but seems to have attracted reasonable interest... if Heljan are using EFE for market reach i’d say they were already in a better starting place than Dapol, so Danes could do a Carlsberg with a 52 and reach parts other 52’s failed to reach.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by adb968008

[frobisher]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Whilst the 52 is left field and twice done, the Hymek has been thrice cooked and refried several times too, but seems to have attracted reasonable interest...

 

Are you sure..?  I think there's been a grand total of two Hymeks tooled up in 00 (Heljan and Triang) and the Hornby have refined that tooling a few times.  Now the 52, that's on it's fifth tooling (Trix, Lima, Hornby, Heljan, Dapol)...

[adb968008]

25 minutes ago, frobisher said:

 

Are you sure..?  I think there's been a grand total of two Hymeks tooled up in 00 (Heljan and Triang) and the Hornby have refined that tooling a few times.  Now the 52, that's on it's fifth tooling (Trix, Lima, Hornby, Heljan, Dapol)...

I was referring to how many releases of Heljan Hymek, theyve had 31 Hymeks off the current tooling, in 20 years, plus the EFE releases... i’d say they've got it covered.

 

Are you considering the Trix, Hornby or Lima 52 toolings as a serious threat at this point ?
 

The market has shown that duplicate toolings can co-exist, and are a good weapon to imposing a threat on an enemy.. what does spinning off a few from an already owned, presumably depreciated tooling, tooling cost you at factory cost prices, that you could always dump later ?
 

Businesses dont just aim to win, they aim to make your competitor lose... I have no doubts thats why we are seeing 3 different manufacturers going head to head on identical numbered / liveried class 66s right now... its not about competition, but attrition.. someone will be left holding a lot of stock, the winner is not selling the most or the best or even the highest price , but having made the most margin from lowest cost (including stock left over)... One way to achieve that is a low cost, right sized quantity at the right price, that it strangles just enough of competitors sales that it hurts them. I think Were going to be swimming in 66’s for sometime.

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by adb968008

[Graham_Muz]

On 04/11/2020 at 20:27, Yankee said:

Does anyone (Graham) know if the new Gate Stock will still have 24.5 mm axles as per the earlier Kernow sets. I have an outstanding order for Gibson Maunsell wheels and wounding if I need to increase the order to cover the set I have just ordered. 

 

Although I haven't seen one of the new batch in person, as I work remotely (and alone....) in the Chilterns Hills office I do not believe any changes were made to bogies or axle lengths as it was not something that worries the majority.

 

FYI I will continue to specify 26mm axles for current (where possible) and future projects.

[frobisher]

On 07/11/2020 at 11:44, adb968008 said:

I was referring to how many releases of Heljan Hymek, theyve had 31 Hymeks off the current tooling, in 20 years, plus the EFE releases... i’d say they've got it covered.

 

That wasn't exactly clear from what you wrote though was it..?

 

On 07/11/2020 at 11:44, adb968008 said:

Are you considering the Trix, Hornby or Lima 52 toolings as a serious threat at this point ?

 

Not at all, the more pertinent question is whether the Heljan 52 is up to the task in the EFE portfolio vs the Dapol one without serious improvement.

 

 

[GEARJAMMER]

Well.... i cant say i had a class 58 on my radar but both the EWS & Mainline blue examples are very tempting, i very much like the weathering on them as well, its not over the top, in fact it barely makes them look dirty at all, but its just enough to take the new/ex works/plasticness look off them.

 

Regarding some of the comments about who produces what, obviously these class 58s (which i'll use as an example) are produced by Heljan in their own factory presumably? Are they then sent to Bachmann or EFE...who ive yet to work out are the same company or not and share factory warehouse space? Then packaged in EFE boxes etc or do Bachmann/EFE send Heljan the packaging and Heljan do the whole manufacturing, packaging and distribution?

 

Also regarding some other 'wish list' comments about producing N gauge models in OO gauge etc. Is it cheaper, easier or any longer to design and produce a model in both N & OO gauge as opposed to one or the other?

[frobisher]

14 minutes ago, GEARJAMMER said:

Regarding some of the comments about who produces what, obviously these class 58s (which i'll use as an example) are produced by Heljan in their own factory presumably? Are they then sent to Bachmann or EFE...who ive yet to work out are the same company or not and share factory warehouse space? Then packaged in EFE boxes etc or do Bachmann/EFE send Heljan the packaging and Heljan do the whole manufacturing, packaging and distribution?

 

As I understand it, EFE is a wholly owned subsidiary of Bachmann Europe and maintained as a marketing and commissioning brand.  Bachmann Europe are responsible for the warehousing and distribution of EFE products.  The EFE commissions are manufactured to EFE's specifications (and that would include the packaging).  At which point EFE/Bachmann take possession of the product and who transports what to where would be a commercial matter between the involved parties. 

[mdvle]

6 hours ago, GEARJAMMER said:

Regarding some of the comments about who produces what, obviously these class 58s (which i'll use as an example) are produced by Heljan in their own factory presumably? Are they then sent to Bachmann or EFE...who ive yet to work out are the same company or not and share factory warehouse space? Then packaged in EFE boxes etc or do Bachmann/EFE send Heljan the packaging and Heljan do the whole manufacturing, packaging and distribution?

 

Heljan's factory will put them into EFE boxes - just as for example Rapido's factory put the stuff they make for Model Rail, Revolution, Realtrack, and others into the appropriately branded boxes.

 

However Bachmann/EFE will do the distribution - one of the entire advantages of the EFE range is taking Heljan, Kernow, or other possible products and giving them a wider distribution than they can get otherwise.

 

6 hours ago, GEARJAMMER said:

Also regarding some other 'wish list' comments about producing N gauge models in OO gauge etc. Is it cheaper, easier or any longer to design and produce a model in both N & OO gauge as opposed to one or the other?

 

There will be some savings, but I am guessing it isn't as significant as some people hoping for the shrinking/expanding hope.

 

The initial research and drawings can be shared, and then eventually the livery documentation and drawings can be shared.  But the actual scale CAD used to make the tooling, or the paint masks and pad printing parts, will all be unique to the chosen scale.

 

 

[jonnyuk]

not sure it's been answered (read through this thread and can't see it). The BWT does it have the coreless motor still?

does it still have the really visible seem down the boiler and does it have the plastic rodding still?

It's lovely looking engine but those 3 things let is down, especially at the price point.

 

[Graham_Muz]

7 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

not sure it's been answered (read through this thread and can't see it). The BWT does it have the coreless motor still?

does it still have the really visible seem down the boiler and does it have the plastic rodding still?

It's lovely looking engine but those 3 things let is down, especially at the price point.

 

Hi 
 

The motor is the same, (I will add I have had no issues with the run running of mine from any of the manufacturing batches.).

 

Your comment regarding a boiler seam is confusing as there is no boiler seam?

Yes the brake rodding is plastic but is to scale. 

[jonnyuk]

thank you for the info, not saying the motor was bad, just wanted to know which one it was. In regards the seem only going on what i've seen in pictures etc as i've never seen one in person. hugely tempted by the SR sunshine livery, i need to read abit more about what i pulled etc, i have a first release of the gatestock, wondering if they ever pulled those (i'm aware the 02 was the main engine for these)