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Comet Coaches. E147 why is it marked A & B


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I am finally getting round to starting my second E147, my two kits were bought a few years ago with one being part built professionally.

For some personal reasons I had to stop modelling for about 6 or 7 years.

I've now almost completed the first one and completed the hinges droplights etc on the second.

The first has the ends marked A & B and I cant remembervwhy it is done,  it's not in building coaches the comet way. Has anyone any ideas?

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Hi IKB,

The ends had different buffers on most of the E147s. Short buffers one the compartments (inner) end and regular at the guard's (outer) end.  Some of the earlier B sets (E140&145) had less 'gubbins' on the inner end but not sure about E147.

 

Will

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39 minutes ago, WillCav said:

Hi IKB,

The ends had different buffers on most of the E147s. Short buffers one the compartments (inner) end and regular at the guard's (outer) end.  Some of the earlier B sets (E140&145) had less 'gubbins' on the inner end but not sure about E147.

 

Will

Thanks, but, I can tell which end-to-end are because of the layout of the sides

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1 hour ago, Isambard Kingdom Brunel said:

The first has the ends marked A & B and I cant remembervwhy it is done,  it's not in building coaches the comet way. Has anyone any ideas?

Posting a photo might help us identify what you mean

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3 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Posting a photo might help us identify what you mean

Hi, basically a letter A  has been written on the inside of one end and a Letter B written at the other end. There was an important reason about 6-7 years ago when I bought them, but, can't remember it.

I can understand if the ends were identical, but,its obvious which is the brake end.  

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Is it something to do with them being "handed"?

 

In that the roof ventilators are to one side like the recent Hornby non corridor coaches. I think the underframe details such as battery boxes may have been on the same side as well. That's when looking at them as a coupled pair.

 

Notice I put "may". I haven't got the Russell books to hand to check.

 

 

Jason

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It's because the buffers were different at either end of the coach. Nearly all B sets were paired for life...there are exceptions. The buffers where the sets joined were much small than the normal. This was certinly true of the E147 sets.

Have a look at Tim Ventons site, there are photos to show this.

 

Mike

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Is there a corresponding A & B written on the underframe?

Maybe they were added to ensure they were joined up the right way round.

 

Also the ends will have different details on them - the alarm gear will only be on one end. Comet instructions label the ends A & B.

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17 hours ago, Taz said:

Is there a corresponding A & B written on the underframe?

Maybe they were added to ensure they were joined up the right way round.

 

Also the ends will have different details on them - the alarm gear will only be on one end. Comet instructions label the ends A & B.

I haven't seen the reference in the Comet Instructions. I'm working on the underframe at the moment

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Apologies, you are right. I’ve just dug out the instructions and the A and B on them have been written by me :blush:

 

As I tend to build my coaches as three sub assemblies (roof, body and underframe) and I tend to mark all 3 with A and B so that I don’t have to keep referring back to instructions when it is all put together.

Maybe the builder of your first E147 worked in a similar way?

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E147 was the flat ended B set coach. 

 

Some also ran as singles rather than a set.  The A and B ends may very well refer to the end that the communicationon gear was attached to as it was applied to only one end of the coach.  I believe on B sets it was the outer (guards) end of the coach which was also the end that the longer buffers were attached.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

E147 was the flat ended B set coach. 

 

Some also ran as singles rather than a set.  The A and B ends may very well refer to the end that the communicationon gear was attached to as it was applied to only one end of the coach.  I believe on B sets it was the outer (guards) end of the coach which was also the end that the longer buffers were attached.

 

 

There was an E116 B set, mostly Bristol Division allocated, that also had flat ends.  K's did a plastic kit which is a bit crude and has no floor, but comes with a nice pair of cast fishbelly bogies, and this appears either made up or as a kit still in the bag on the 'Bay of e.  Never going to be finescale but can be worked up into a moderately acceptable 'layout' model.  It pre-empts Comet by having some droplights moulded half or fully open, and has a single first class compartment at the inner end of each coach; only one is smoker of course.

 

All B sets constructed as such were Collett designs and it is interesting to see how they folllowed the developement of his coaches; E116 flat end, 1st class at inner end of coaches, fishbellies, E129 bow end,  different body profile and windows1st class half way along comparted section of coach, 7' bogies, E140 as E129 but with 9' bogies, E147 flat end, another different body profile with larger windows and smaller droplights, 1st class as E129/140, 9' bogies and, IIRC, full size inner buffers enabling use as single vehicles split from sets, used in this form in Newton Abbott division under BR.

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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

E129 bow end,  different body profile and windows1st class half way along comparted section of coach, 7' bogies, E140 as E129 but with 9' bogies

Its the E145 with 9 foot - same body as the E140.

 

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The later builds of E147s, lots 1550, and 1750/5/77, seem to have been built with 'standard' size buffers at both ends, and the Comet kit comes with 4 standard buffers.  They could thus be used as individual BCs as well as as in B sets; in fact, these lots running as B sets were coupled thus for operating convenience rather than being built as B sets.  The two converted to 'cyclops' auto trailers for the Lydney-Sharpness Severn Bridge service also had conventional buffers at both ends.  These were the only cyclops trailers to be painted in BR livery and the only ones to have first class accomodation, a feature demanded by the LMS who jointly ran the service with the GWR.  The BR conversions from D117 to auto trailer diagram A43 were based on these.

 

Comet do not provide the 'gearbox cover' for the communication cord butterfly rodding 'junction box', but do provide brass wire to make the rodding out of.  I am currently at the finishing off stage of a pair to represent Tondu Set no.2, 6745/6746, and have made the (correctable) mistake of using smaller buffers for the inner ends, which as Lot 1550 coaches these did not possess.  As correcting this might lead to an unacceptable compromise to the close coupling on a No.3 curve in the fiddle yard, I may leave things as they are.  The set runs smoothly and at the correct ride height, which has taken some fine tuning of the bogie mountings to achieve without their inner ends fouling on the trussing.

 

The 'gearbox' covers have been cut to an appoximate shape from softwood, actually matchstick, and glued directly to the inner ends; they will be painted black when the rods are put on, later this avo (I've broken for a cuppa and to check here that this apparatus was on the inner ends only. 

 

These particular coaches were, according to Ms Prism's website, originally constructed to run as singles but formed into pairs at Tondu 'later'; I am not aware of the exact dates and am taking a bit of a Rule 1 punt on them still being in service at Tondu in BR crimson in the early 50s.  Next question; where were the lamp brackets?  As these coaches were built as singles they need to be provided at both ends of both coaches.

 

The A and B labelling (I have used outward pointing arrows as well to indicate the direction of the outer ends because I get confused when things are upside down, a sort of visual dislexia, can't tell back and front or right and left if I'm underneath a car either) may be useful when you are attaching the details to the underside of the underframes.  Looking at the set from broadside on, the battery boxes are to the nearer side of the underframe on the right hand coach of the set and on the further side of the left hand coach.  The dynamos are the other way about.

Edited by The Johnster
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