BR's most basic coaches at the time of nationalsiation

[18B]

Hi, 

 

wondering what the most basic of coaches there were still running in 1948 at the time of nationalisation? Where there any four wheelers still running in 1948? 

 

TIA

[Steamport Southport]

Vale Of Rheidol I would guess.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vale_of_Rheidol_Railway_rolling_stock

 

I assume you mean standard gauge though. Possibly still some GWR 4 wheelers in use for works trains in South Wales. I would think anything else surviving would be in departmental stock.

 

 

Jason

[Bucoops]

The GER Suburban 6-aside coaches were about as basic as you could get. This one was withdrawn pre-nationalisation but some were still in service:

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Bucoops

[Steamport Southport]

They're a bit like the Metropolitan Railway coaches.

 

Although they weren't BR they lasted until the 1960s!

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/bash/hist.html

[Bucoops]

38 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

They're a bit like the Metropolitan Railway coaches.

 

Although they weren't BR they lasted until the 1960s!

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/bash/hist.html

 

The round topped doors were inspired by the Met ones - less damage done if someone opens it in a tunnel!

 

These ones were made from putting two 4 wheel bodies on a bogie underframe but other ones built as bogie bodies from scratch had more traditional rectangular doors.

[The Johnster]

There were some WR auto trailers that

were pretty grim, with wooden ‘walkover’ tram type seats with backs hinged to face either way.  The Dean 4 wheelers used on miners’ workmens’ trains in South Wales had been upholstered as built, but had had this removed leaving plain wooden bench seats for easy cleaning (except for the ‘clean’ compartments fot office staff), as did the clerestories and ‘Met’ (GW for widened lines to Moorgate) stock that superceded them. 

 

 

[IWCR]

One set of 4 wheelers on the Isle of Wight, 3 ex LCDR Brake Thirds used as the Freshwater line mail set, did still have some passenger compartments but probably few passengers at the time it ran.

 

Pete

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Vale Of Rheidol I would guess.

I think the VoR coaches would have been the height of luxury compared with whatever the Corris still had operational at closure ....... yes that WAS under British Railways ownership.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

I think the VoR coaches would have been the height of luxury compared with whatever the Corris still had operational at closure ....... yes that WAS under British Railways ownership.

 

The passenger stock had all gone in the 1930s though. As it had on the Welshpool & Llanfair.

[The Johnster]

The LNER handed over some tramway type coaches, and indeed a batch of electric trams; I doubt those were exactly Pullman standard either.  Wisbech and Upwell, Hunstanton...

 

 

Then somebody decided Pacers would be a good idea...

 

 

 

 

coat?

[roythebus]

And look what we've got now, those awful 700 things which has wooden or plastic seats with a flimsy bit of material you'd expect to find in the M&S lingerie department.

 

By comparison the IWR 4 wheelers are far more luxurious even in third class!

[Nearholmer]

I always find the history of The Shropshire & Montgomery Railway confusing to say the least, but it was nationalised, even though the military were leasing it at the time, and the remaining S&M stock, most of which had been OOU for some time, became BR property.

 

So, was 'Gazelle', with its built-in passenger hutch part of the junk inherited by BR? Because if it was, it would be a surefire winner. [Yes! Gazelle did belong to BR, transferred from S&M to BR ownership in April 1950, but it was presented to WD on permanent loan a month later, to be preserved at Longmoor. It was already well-OOU at the time, and was actually already at Longmoor, having got there via a cosmetic overhaul at Bicester in 1948/49, when it still belonged to the S&M, so no passengers carried, therefore possibly only a technical winner.]

 

And, if it wasn't, it would be worth a search across the other Light Railways that were nationalised, the East Kent Railway being a prime candidate, because they had some really tatty old crocks still just about creaking along. I think the EKR passenger accommodation during 1948, so under BR ownership, was two ex-LCDR six-wheel brake thirds, a couple of six-wheel thirds, and an ex-LSWR bogie coach.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Nearholmer

[CKPR]

I think that there were some ex-GER 6w coaches  on the Mid Suffolk line in use up to the very early 1950s.

Edited November 7, 2020 by CKPR

[PatB]

The North Sunderland Railway was not, IIRC, actually nationalised, but it retained some fairly grim, elderly passenger stock until closure in the very early 50s. At one stage it wasn't even lit, due to concerns about fire risk from the oil lamps. Must have been really inviting in the gloom of a Northumberland winter's evening or morning. 

[Chris Turnbull]

8 hours ago, CKPR said:

I think that there were some ex-GER 6w coaches  on the Mid Suffolk linein use up to the very early 1950s.

 

Yes, you are quite correct.  According to Peter Paye in "The Mid-Suffolk Light Railway" (page 185) "The last six-wheel coaching stock in regular use ... on British Railways, were brake third No. 62338 and composite 63404 which soldiered on until October 1951 pending the arrival of replacement stock."  The composite was withdrawn on 15th January 1952 and the brake third was withdrawn in 1952 and transferred to departmental stock.

 

Another railway which had some basic coaches was the Kelvedon and Tollesbury Light Railway.  It had two GE bogie tram coaches from the Wisbech and Upwell and two Stoke Ferry coaches which were all withdrawn in 1951.  If you want to know what tram coach No. 60461 looked like then watch the "Titfield Thunderbolt".

 

Chris Turnbull  

[CKPR]

6 hours ago, PatB said:

The North Sunderland Railway was not, IIRC, actually nationalised, but it retained some fairly grim, elderly passenger stock until closure in the very early 50s. At one stage it wasn't even lit, due to concerns about fire risk from the oil lamps. Must have been really inviting in the gloom of a Northumberland winter's evening or morning. 

If we count the NSR, then there was also the un-nationalised Easingwold Rly on which the passenger service using a 6w coach lasted for about 11 months after Nationalisation

[pete_mcfarlane]

We probably need to define what 'basic' means. There are some really nice 6 wheeled coaches with toilets and decent upholstery, and some pretty grim bogie stock.

 

Take the SECR 100 seat non-corridor thirds as an example.  These are fairly modern looking steel panelled bogie stock which lasted into the 1960s. Inside they are incredibly basic and really cramped - just about OK for a short suburban journey (or a trip up the Bluebell) but I'd hate to be having to use one of these every day from Tunbridge Wells to Victoria. They did have heating and upholstery though. 

 

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/carrev2a_secr.html

 

If by 'basic' you mean primitive, then it would have been hard to beat the GNR(I) and their Fintona horse tram. 

http://www.trolleybus.net/subhtml/picture9.htm

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

17 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I think the VoR coaches would have been the height of luxury compared with whatever the Corris still had operational at closure ....... yes that WAS under British Railways ownership.

 

16 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The passenger stock had all gone in the 1930s though. As it had on the Welshpool & Llanfair.

The Corris stock is pretty nice by Welsh NG standards, judging by the preserved one on the Talylln. Those tramway style coaches may have basic seats and no loos, but they have massive windows so lack the grim claustrophobia of grotty compartment stock. 

[Wickham Green too]

I stand corrected ........... no, b****r it, I'll stay seated !

 

So if the Corris 'passenger stock had had all gone in the 1930s', did it go to the Talyllyn that early ? - I'd always assumed ( dangerous ) that it was a post-preservation move with the locos ! 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Wickham Green too

[ardbealach]

What about the two Caley Coaches at SRPS Bo'ness?  I understand they remained internally unaltered through their LMS days from back in the late Pre-grouping period.  There may well be other coaches now on heritage lines with a similar long history. (AM)

[Nearholmer]

Building on Mr MFarlane’s point: the SR were building augmentation trailers to create 4-SUB at the time, and they were incredibly cramped and pretty basic too. A key feature was that only one skin of sheet steel separated your elbow from the outside world if you were in a window seat.

[Andy Kirkham]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

I stand corrected ........... no, b****r it, I'll stay seated !

 

So if the Corris 'passenger stock had had all gone in the 1930s', did it go to the Talyllyn that early ? - I'd always assumed ( dangerous ) that it was a post-preservation move with the locos ! 

The Corris coach's body was retrieved by the Talyllyn in 1958 from a garden in  Gobowen. The underfames and bogies were built new. The two Glyn Valley coaches were similar cases.

 

https://www.justgiving.com/campaign/corriscoach17rebuild

Edited November 7, 2020 by Andy Kirkham

[corneliuslundie]

What about the ex GER Quad Arts - as preserved at Sheringham?

Jonathan

[Ravenser]

14 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

What about the ex GER Quad Arts - as preserved at Sheringham?

Jonathan

 

LNER built . Can someone confirm whether "the sit up and beg stock" was applied to these or the successor BR Mk1 suburbans?

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

What about the ex GER Quad Arts - as preserved at Sheringham?

Jonathan

 

As Ravenser has said they were built by the LNER (to a GNR design) and used out of Kings Cross

 

And sheer luxury compared to the GER 54ft stock