Gatwick-Reading 3 car DMUs

[roythebus]

I'm following a thread on the "collectible and vintage" trains section and there's mention of MTK kits. I used to have a running (yes, running) MTK 3-car Gatwick-Reading DMU with miniature bufet in the centre car.

 

What class were they, does anyone do a model of one these days? If not, were the windows standard Mk1 windows? I have the MTK drawings for what they're worth and may be inclined to cut and shut some Mk1 coaches onto Lima DMU underframes to make a set.

[Fat Controller]

Class 119 Gloucester Cross- Country?

[Davexoc]

To answer the first question, Class 119, with the buffet being a class 178 in old money terms.

[Karhedron]

I remember the 119s on the North Downs line.

[roythebus]

That's the one. 

[roythebus]

Does anyone do a model of it?

[phil_sutters]

Not sure about the buffet but there are rtr & conversion kit options it seems http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/british-rail-class-119-gloucester-cross-country-dmu/

I don't know anything more than this about Silver Fox Models.

I have only used this line in the Thames Turbo era.

Edited November 6, 2020 by phil_sutters

[Nearholmer]

I seem to remember that the buffet area was converted for carrying luggage, or have I got that wrong?

[TravisM]

I used to travel on them quite often and the buffet was taken out of use pretty early in their lives.  By the early 70’s, maybe even earlier the buffet was left in place but shuttered up, but those used on the Gatwick - Reading service had the buffet area removed and extra luggage racks installed.

[SRman]

As mentioned earlier, there is a Silver Fox conversion, and an earlier conversion kit from Craftsman Models with brass sides and inner ends intended for the Lima class 117. Their class 120 conversion kit was almost identical except for the driving ends, which were also etched brass. The sides in these kits were the same for both classes, but required one small window divider to be snipped for the 119. I have done the 120 conversion, and have another kit to do the 119 in the future.

If you see one of these kits, you could purchase eitehr the class 119 or the 120 to make a passable 119 model.

Here's a photo of the 120, showing the same window layout as the 119. Mine was done on a Lima class 117 3-car set, but I later updated the motor chassis to a Hornby one from a slightly modified class 121.

P_20181224_131014_vHDR_On by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr

[keefer]

https://railcar.co.uk/type/class-119/

[Not Captain Kernow]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I seem to remember that the buffet area was converted for carrying luggage, or have I got that wrong?

Correct, best image I have is this

 

 

When on our training scheme back in the 1980s, we were sent out on our free pass from Waterloo to have a day of discovery and report back the next day.  One of the lads came back saying they had travelled on a train with strange bunk beds, which we worked out meant he travelled from Guildford to Gatwick on a Class 119 in the former buffet coach!

[roythebus]

Thanks, that'll save me a lot of chopping up!

[SP Steve]

Worsley Works do sides + ends kit for a three car 119:

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_BR.htm

[EddieK]

DC Kits may still have Class 119 body parts at the back of the cupboard.

[roythebus]

So with this choice, what would others recommend? What are the sides made from? Etch/plastic overlays or what?

[EddieK]

6 hours ago, roythebus said:

So with this choice, what would others recommend? What are the sides made from? Etch/plastic overlays or what?

On my workbench is a Class 119 Motor Brake Composite from DC Kits parts. Trials have shown that Bachmann Derby LW glazing can be made to fit, and I have used a cab end from a Bachmann 108. Underframe will be from a Dapol Class 122. 

The door droplight apertures needed to be "adjusted" in size to make them nearer the real thing.

[roythebus]

Presumably the Replica Railways motorised underframe will do the job as well? 

 

Are the DC kits plastic sides?

 

I'm a bit reluctant to cut up rather expensive Bachy units to make this one, I've probably got enough Lima underframes lying round. they were going cheap back in the 1980s. a bloke at Waterloo was selling them as "trains sets but without the engine" for tenner a set. a bargain or what?

 

[Bill Radford]

The Replica underframe although excellent intrudes above window level.

[Fat Controller]

The DC Kits units are plastic. The Reverend has done both Swindon and Gloucester Cross-Country types, and finds the newer style Hornby motor bogie more than adequate for three car sets.

 

[brushman47544]

On 06/11/2020 at 23:36, Nearholmer said:

I seem to remember that the buffet area was converted for carrying luggage, or have I got that wrong?

 

On 07/11/2020 at 00:07, jools1959 said:

I used to travel on them quite often and the buffet was taken out of use pretty early in their lives.  By the early 70’s, maybe even earlier the buffet was left in place but shuttered up, but those used on the Gatwick - Reading service had the buffet area removed and extra luggage racks installed.

As a regular commuter when they were in use on the Reading - Gatwick/Tonbridge services, the former buffet area was converted to luggage space before entering service on the line. Luggage space was a major issue, because 3+2 seated 101s appeared briefly after the Tadpoles were withdrawn and there were lots of complaints about luggage on seats, so 2+2 Class 119s with extra luggage space were allocated instead.

[Halvarras]

I was a semi-regular traveller on this line from Reading as far as Blackwater in the early 1970s and well remember those 3R Tadpole units. The ex-EPB  driving trailer was usually locked on off-peak services due to the lack of gangway access for the guard, which meant only half the train length was available to passengers, although 3 compartments of the trailer were gutted for luggage/mailbags anyway. The already established requirement for luggage space for people travelling to or from an airport via this route didn't seem to feature in the thinking behind the Tadpoles' replacements...........

[KeithHC]

The tadpoles really predate the extension of the services to and from Gatwick and the blocked of compartments where meant for parcels and mail traffic. I did how ever travel a few times in the remaining compartments in the EPB trailer. For a period during the winter of 74/75 myself and two others travelled from North Camp to Redhill every weekday. The guards had noticed we where regulars and would open up the compartment just for us.

 

Keith

[Wickham Green too]

On 06/11/2020 at 23:36, Nearholmer said:

I seem to remember that the buffet area was converted for carrying luggage, or have I got that wrong?

No shortage of luggage space ............ though heading west through Maidenhead, it wasn't a lot of use for Gatwick traffic - nor Heathrow, for that matter !

[SRman]

That last photo illustrates that for Gatwick traffic, the centre coaches were usually marshalled the "wrong" way round, so the ex-buffet area was adjacent to the luggage area of the DMBC, meaning that the toilets were all collected at the other end of the train, with the TS and DTS having them near the gangway connections.