Wickham Green too Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 What they were without was the black patch - so the white figures are very nearly lost on the very nearly white body ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2022 29 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: What they were without was the black patch - so the white figures are very nearly lost on the very nearly white body ! By golly he's right, thanks for that, and I've had them in my hands close up whilst converting them and never seen it, but it needed a very bright light and a pair of magnifying glasses to see it! So, that poses a second question, the only genuinely ex works picture I can find is on Paul's site and shows a black patch, and my understanding was that only early build 16 tonners in "darkish" grey or bauxite didn't have a black patch, can anyone elucidate please? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: .... can anyone elucidate please? Is that legal nowadays ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 7 hours ago, Wickham Green too said: Is that legal nowadays ? I believe so between consenting sapiens, although not ones from Yorkshire called Lucy, as it known as a chat up line! Mike. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 20, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 12 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: By golly he's right, thanks for that, and I've had them in my hands close up whilst converting them and never seen it, but it needed a very bright light and a pair of magnifying glasses to see it! So, that poses a second question, the only genuinely ex works picture I can find is on Paul's site and shows a black patch, and my understanding was that only early build 16 tonners in "darkish" grey or bauxite didn't have a black patch, can anyone elucidate please? Mike. Hi Mike, All our artwork was based off real photos and tare weights were painted on black panels as white on light grey became hard to read for obvious reasons. All our MDOs have the tare weights on light grey reflecting this issue! Cheers! Fran 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 21 minutes ago, Accurascale Fran said: Hi Mike, All our artwork was based off real photos and tare weights were painted on black panels as white on light grey became hard to read for obvious reasons. All our MDOs have the tare weights on light grey reflecting this issue! Cheers! Fran Any chance of a look at the pics please? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 20, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Any chance of a look at the pics please? Mike. Hi Mike, The images were provided by one of our contributors, via an unknown source, so I will have to contact them and see about sharing. However, this works shot of a 24.5 ton wagon built around the same time shows the policy of markings in white without a black background. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralmeo/e1d8c4b6f HTH Cheers! Fran 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 I'm not trying to start a fight!, just after historical accuracy. This pic shows a 24.5 tonner, I reckon in as built condition, although I'm open to correction, with black patches, and no sign of original white lettering. It's definitely a moving feast this lark! https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralmeo/h1D8C4B6F#h1b394a88 Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 20, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: I'm not trying to start a fight!, just after historical accuracy. This pic shows a 24.5 tonner, I reckon in as built condition, although I'm open to correction, with black patches, and no sign of original white lettering. It's definitely a moving feast this lark! https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralmeo/h1D8C4B6F#h1b394a88 Mike. Hi Mike, Of course. What we have found is there isnt always a rhyme nor reason to any of this sometimes. I do know our next batch will include black backgrounds on the tare weights to add in the prototype mixture found on these (and other) wagons. Cheers! Fran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Accurascale Fran said: Hi Mike, Of course. What we have found is there isnt always a rhyme nor reason to any of this sometimes. I do know our next batch will include black backgrounds on the tare weights to add in the prototype mixture found on these (and other) wagons. Cheers! Fran Next batch?? Oh bloody hell. Mike. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: I'm not trying to start a fight!, just after historical accuracy. This pic shows a 24.5 tonner, I reckon in as built condition, although I'm open to correction, with black patches, and no sign of original white lettering. It's definitely a moving feast this lark! https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmineralmeo/h1D8C4B6F#h1b394a88 Mike. That's taken 15 years after being built. Possibly repainted twice, What has it to do with a discussion about the original appearance of a MDO? BR took years to settle down into getting some sort of agreement on how wagons should be painted and written. And you can still see instructions being ignored to this day - the use of italic for tares was remarkably common but you won't find it mentioned on the RCH writing instructions. The Chas Roberts official does have a black ground to the numbers, and a most unusual shape to the number panel. Presumably this was a rectangle on the other side. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mdo/ef1268c7b This method of painting may well have altered soon afterwards as the RCH instructions suggest each number should have its own ground - so not just a single block but a pair, small for the tonnage and larger for the number - it is often to be seen on 16tonner photos of the mid 50s. Paul Paul Edited January 20, 2022 by hmrspaul 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Here is a photo of the other side of a Charles Roberts built one. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 I have just been given a friend's three 21-tonners to weather. They are in the pre-1964 lettering and unfittted. There are no tare weights on any of them. Is this a general fault in all of the models of this batch? They also have a lamp bracket on the door ends but not one at the other end, the same as my own MDVs. I didn't think that unfitted wagons had lamp brackets, or am I wrong? If they shouldn't then I'll cut them off and stick them to the end of my MDVs that should have them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold McC Posted February 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2022 44 minutes ago, Ruston said: I have just been given a friend's three 21-tonners to weather. They are in the pre-1964 lettering and unfittted. There are no tare weights on any of them. Is this a general fault in all of the models of this batch? They also have a lamp bracket on the door ends but not one at the other end, the same as my own MDVs. I didn't think that unfitted wagons had lamp brackets, or am I wrong? If they shouldn't then I'll cut them off and stick them to the end of my MDVs that should have them. You might have missed it earlier in thread, but the tares, etc, are painted accurately in white, so need close inspection to see them. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Ruston said: I have just been given a friend's three 21-tonners to weather. They are in the pre-1964 lettering and unfittted. There are no tare weights on any of them. Is this a general fault in all of the models of this batch? They also have a lamp bracket on the door ends but not one at the other end, the same as my own MDVs. I didn't think that unfitted wagons had lamp brackets, or am I wrong? If they shouldn't then I'll cut them off and stick them to the end of my MDVs that should have them. Pretty sure the only unfitted wagons with a tail lamp bracket were brakevans "Ruston". just like piped vehicles should have white painted necks and no cocks on the air pipes. An unfitted vehicle could not form the rearmost vehicle of a train except a move within station and yard limits. Shunters occasional hung the tail lamp on the drawhook in those situations. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 14 hours ago, McC said: ..... the tares, etc, are painted accurately in white, so need close inspection to see them. That would have been the situation in real life - so I've no doubt white tares on black patches would have appeared whenever the wagons got anywhere near a paintbrush ........... but who knows how many years it would have been before that happened and what state of weathering would have occurred by then ??!? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2022 35 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: That would have been the situation in real life - so I've no doubt white tares on black patches would have appeared whenever the wagons got anywhere near a paintbrush ........... but who knows how many years it would have been before that happened and what state of weathering would have occurred by then ??!? Depends on how much notice anyone took of them - they weren't needed if wagons were tare weighed before loading or after unloading and equally they weren't needed once those regularly weighing loaded wagons knew the normal tare weight of the type of wagons they were loading. To what extent tare weighing happened I don't know but tare weighing definitely took place at some locations. Having seen coal products loaded in coke wagons without extension boards or even an ordinary Highfit on one occasion the only way the load would be known would have been by tare weighing. And any weighbridge staff weighing dozens (at quieter collieries) of wagons everyday inevitably knew off by heart the supposed tare weight of the various (often very few) types of wagon normally loaded there even if they weren't tare weighed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 20 hours ago, Covkid said: Pretty sure the only unfitted wagons with a tail lamp bracket were brakevans "Ruston". just like piped vehicles should have white painted necks and no cocks on the air pipes. An unfitted vehicle could not form the rearmost vehicle of a train except a move within station and yard limits. Shunters occasional hung the tail lamp on the drawhook in those situations. Till the mid 1980’s there were cocks on the through air pipes! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted March 2, 2022 Share Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Mark Saunders said: Till the mid 1980’s there were cocks on the through air pipes! That is a surprise Mark. Amazing. But thinking about it, castings for the uncocked valves were probably quite a rare commodity at C&W workshops. Edited March 2, 2022 by Covkid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 I'm getting my three ready for their first show outing and I'm spending a lot of time on the floor finding the door bumpers which don't seem very strongly attached- they are once put back! I suspect I'll lose some of the ones I've not strengthened at the first show. Any chance of stronger glue for the fiddly bits in future production runs? Les 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Les1952 said: I'm getting my three ready for their first show outing and I'm spending a lot of time on the floor finding the door bumpers which don't seem very strongly attached- they are once put back! I suspect I'll lose some of the ones I've not strengthened at the first show. Any chance of stronger glue for the fiddly bits in future production runs? Les Regrettably, throughout the whole range of manufacturers who use China, the amount of glue, even within the same wagon, can vary wildly. I'm sure the only specification is to attach any said part to the wagon, not how much glue to use. It's prevelant on the pig tails on Accurascale hoppers, and brake wheels and shafts on the Cemflos, they have either fallen off in transit, or have to be all but hammered off! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: It's prevelant on the pig tails on Accurascale hoppers, Ok new one to me ‘pigs tail’ what is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: It's prevelant on the pig tails on Accurascale hoppers, Ok new one to me ‘pigs tail’ what is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Mark Saunders said: Ok new one to me ‘pigs tail’ what is it? Hopper operating handles. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Hopper operating handles. Mike. Never referred to them where I worked, monkey tails on the LNER/NER ones! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now