Model Loco identification please.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi.

 

I have been sent some photos of models. They seem to be either clockwork, Hornby Dublo 3 Rail, or Trix, possibly Marklin?

 

Now I can identify most, but there are two locos that I’m not so sure off.

 

The tank loco top left. Trix or Marklin?

 

 

Top right Tri-ang Railways clockwork diesel shunter, fitted with PECO type couplings.

 

Bottom Left Hornby Dublo 3 rail 0-6-2 tank loco, LMS.

 

Bottom right Trix Twin Cadet tank loco.  Was this loco also made for the main range, with a normal voltage motor? The Cadet loco had a lower voltage motor, to be used with a hand cranked generator...

 

This loco. Trix or Marklin?

 

Hornby Dublo 3-rail Duchess of Atholl. Earlier version without smoke deflectors.

 

 

I know that someone out there knows!

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
More added

[Il Grifone]

Hi Ruff,

The two German locomotives appear to be Trix Express, huge flanges being the give away. If they will run on HD 3 rail track they are Märklin. Märklin flanges are a bit coarser than Dublo, but not sufficiently to impede operation.

 

The German 0-4-0T is almost certainly Trix. She has the front driver without a crank and the drive gear between the wheels characteristic of the Trix mechanism. I believe this thing has a Br80 number but isn't, as the real thing is an 0-6-0T. (Little things like that didn't worry Trix!)

In American guise with a cowcatcher on the front:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/trix-twin-market-4-0t-20-54-131022047

 

The Pacific is  the Trix Express Br01 Pacific IMHO - Witness thick flanges on the remains of the pony truck. This part almost always suffers from zinc pest! The red box and yellow label, hook coupling, wire to the tender (for the uncoupling mechanism), and side mounted brushes also suggest Trix.

http://www.trix.co.uk/trixexpress.htm

(Finally identified the cylinder/slide bar assembly in my spares box!)

This too had an American version:

https://trixstadt.de/stammtischberichte/bildberichte-2013/27-trix-express-stammtisch-berlin-17-02-2013/

 

There was a 14V AC version of  the Cadet 0-4-0T. Apparently there was a 12V DC version planned but never released. (Acetate strikes again they are always curvy!)

Edited November 8, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Silverfox17]

9 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Hornby Dublo 3-rail Duchess of Atholl. Earlier version without smoke deflectors

I don't remember any Atholl's being fitted with smoke deflectors as standard, some may have been after a repair but none as sold new. The last few did have the slots in the footplate for them when the body was to be used for the Montrose which was always fitted with deflectors but not Atholl's. Early Atholl's had a flush sided footplate and again later ones had a raised edge for when Montrose was made and had an orange line on it. 

 

Garry 

[Il Grifone]

It's hard to tell from the angle of the photo, but could the Atholl be a horseshoe version? The cab seems free of magnet and the box seems to be the early post-war type. Mine (1951) came in a blue box. She is in good condition, apart from a bit of wear to the paintwork. The wheels and valvegear are still shiny.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Duchess could be a horseshoe version.

I have only seen the photos, as the models are on the South Coast of England.

 

The models have been in storage for some time.

 

There is a mix of Trix Bakelite and Hornby Dublo track, including at least one adaptor straight track, which has obviously been fabricated as none were made as far as I know. It is visible in the Duchess photo...

 

I hope to hear more from the current owner.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
Clarification...

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK* the only commercial way to join Trix and Dublo (or Tri-ang) was to join two commercial 'flexible track' adapters together (both Peco and Wrenn made them - others probably). I didn't notice that the two rails were actually joined together - too busy looking at the locomotive!

 

I starting making one years ago for Trix fibre to Dublo. It has got as far as cut down pieces of Trix track and Dublo track In separate 'Where the **** are they? locations. Every so often one turns up to remind me of the project....

 

I've just noticed a Trix Express point in the background with the rotating indicator.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Here are the rest of the photos that I have received.

 

Trix lever switches. Airfix Signal Box.

 

 

Hornby Dublo 2 or 3 Rail TPO coach.

 

 

Hornby Dublo 3 Rail TPO track section and switch.

 

 

Hornby Dublo controller. Trix track. Lima controller upside down?

 

Obviously, do not use the HD controller, unless properly tested.

 

 

Trix track.

 

German written on the lid?

 

[Il Grifone]

The Dublo controller has a PVC mains cable so should be OK. Getting it professionally tested is nevertheless advisable. It's a variable resistance unit so the test would probably cost more than it's worth.

 

The writing on the box states (as I can make out and my inadequate knowledge of the language goes!), "42 gebogene ganzen? Schienen", which is German for "42 full curved rails". This would seem to describe the contents perfectly. Some even appear to be in usable condition!

I am not sure if there is any difference between Trix Twin and Trix Express curved rails. I'd have to check my boxes of Trix track. It would only be in the lettering/details of the base anyway as they are 100% compatible dimensionally.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Il Grifone

[roythebus]

Tri-ang-Hornby made an adaptor track in about 1964. I had a couple from the factory before they were on general release. At grammar school there were a few of us with model railways and we put on a small show for the summer fair in the science lab. One lad had a lot of HD, I had some Tri-ang stuff, so the adaptors were acquired! I knew the Trind rep as i worked part-time in a toy shop at the time.  

 

The lad with the Trix-Twin had a table to himself as his stuff wouldn't run on DC sow e were told.

[Il Grifone]

The Tri-ang adapter joins Tri-ang to Hornby Dublo 2 rail. It's later form was to connect the older Tri-ang to System 6.*

Trix will run happily on DC. It's just you can never say which way. The problem is that the coarse wheels won't run through Dublo or Tri-ang** pointwork and being 3 rail won't run on 2 rail track at all.

 

* Is there any difference in the versions? HD 2 rail is code 110 and System 6 code code 100? or was the slight bump just ignored?

 

** Easing the B2B will allow the rolling stock to run, albeit with a bump passing through the crossings. This can't be done with the field wound locomotives as the drive gears will then disengage.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Il Grifone
Lack of proof reading due to to errant Maremma sheepdog

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Tri-ang Hornby Converter Rail original issue has the sleepers at the Hornby Dublo end to match Hornby Dublo 2 Rail track in size and shape, though the sleepers are moulded in black plastic.

The rails are actually castings, with a significant taper in height from the Super 4 end to the HD end.

 

The later version to fit System 6 had the sleeper base retooled with the Margate style of System 6 sleepers at that end, with the half sleeper arrangement then in use.

 

I’m pretty sure that there is a third version, with the later Austrian ROCO type of sleepers at the System 6 end.

 

Im not sure if the fishplates changed.

 

I have never, so far, compared the Rail castings.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
Typo caused by auto correct!

[Il Grifone]

I have a Peco adapter for HD 3 rail to Pecoway (the fibre based stuff*). The rails are white metal so it stays attached to it's card backing.

 

I'd be inclined to just solder the rails together for a working model.

 

*Actually quite decent 00 scale (i.e. 4mm scale 16.5mm gauge) track. Just keep it dry!

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Further photos now received...

 

More of the Duchess of Atholl.

 

 

 

 

It looks like a “repairs box” to me?

 

 

I think that the pole pieces look like the later type, not a Horseshoe type?

 

 

 

So far, the tender for this loco has not been found.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
Tender info added

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Trix German Pacific loco.

 

Part of the label is still on the box lid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did any of these locos have a smoke unit fitted?

 

The owner said that they seem to remember one smoking?

 

I am thinking that this Pacific is the most likely candidate. 
 

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Trix German Tank Loco.

 

It looks like the tank loco box is also a Meccano Ltd. Repairs Box?

 

Probably for the 0-6-2 LMS loco...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Hornby Dublo LMS 0-6-2 tank loco.

 

 

 

 

Missing the front coupling and body retaining screw. The coupling acts as the “nut” for the body retaining screw.

 

 

 

 

The works...

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Tri-ang Railways 0-6-0 Diesel Shunter, Clockwork version.

 

The Mk 2 couplings have been modified to fit the PECO type used by Hornby Dublo, and later by Trix ( and later Playcraft Railways HO range).

 

 

Earlier body, without the two extra holes that some later Shunter bodies have for the control rods.

 

 

 

 

 

Early keyhole. Later bodies have an extra “box” to better surround the keyhole with plastic.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
More details added...

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The Trix “Cadet” type tank loco.

 

The body does indeed shew some warping of the CA type plastic.

 

 

 

 

 

Date code F.7. (I don’t have my books to hand to decode it...)

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
Date code added

[Il Grifone]

Yes it's a AlNiCo magnet in the Duchess. The loose buffer in her box is Trix and presumably one of the two missing from the tank engine. At worse, a replacement tender would not be difficult or expensive to locate.

It's not clear on my monitor whether the label on 6917 is gold or silver, but it seems gold. which would date heras1948. She would then have the larger cab windows and would should have a horseshoe chassis.  At least the pony truck, if not the whole chassis, is from a later period as it has the solid spoked wheels and LMC coupling with the two tags.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Il Grifone
'Midnight' the black cat walking over the keyboard

[Il Grifone]

Carrying on where I left of (Italian pizza!  ), The N2 front couplings have got expensive of late. (I was charged 2/6d for one back in the  day!), likewise keys for clockwork locomotives. Talking of N2s there is a Gaiety body on eBay at the moment if anyone wants one.

The mod of the Mk II coupling to the Peco/HD type is ingenious but the snag is it should  rotate sideways. It's probably OK on a locomotive though.

I can never remember the start year for the Trix date code. think it's 1949 which would make the Cadet tank late 1956 which is about right IIRC.

Waffle -

I had seen one of the Trix generators in a second hand shop in late 1957 and thought it would be just the thing to operate the TPO set I was not supposed to know I was going to receive for my birthday in January 1958 (to go with my new Bristol Castle received for Xmas). They wanted 7/6d for it which was not forthcoming. Just as well as I didn't realise they were 6 volt. Why they didn't make the Cadet series 12 volt I don't know; it would have been just as easy. (A batch of cheap motors?)

 

I must add an 01 Pacific to my collection.... I already have a Trix Br 80 (the proper 0-6-0T version). a few wagons, and a couple of Märklin Donnerbüchsen coaches. Somewhere there should also be a Märklin Wagon-Lits luggage van.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Perhaps the Meccano Ltd. repair of the 0-6-2 involved a chassis swap?

 

Yes the Hornby transfer looks gold to me too....I will have to ask.

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Ruffnut Thorston
Auto correct put good where I put gold!

[Il Grifone]

That's what I thought. As the windings are different on the armature, It's probable they would do a complete swop. It would be less trouble and less likely to get a call back. The repairs I had from Binns Road (through my local dealer) were around a pound, which would have been about the factory price for a new chassis.

[5050]

The diesel shunter could be fitted with the Peco nylon conversion coupler which, after drilling out the rivet, drops into place held by a nylon 'pin'.  I'm sure I might still have a couple of sets attached to some of my early wagons.  I converted them to run with my Peco Wonderful wagons but, given my appalling standard of modelling back then, 'run' is a very nebulous term.

 

Also just remembered the Trix 'wind-up' controller.  One of the local shops had one which I tried out.  After just a couple of mins of frantic wrist action I started with cramp.  I decided then and there that the whole concept was a complete waste of space!

Edited November 13, 2020 by 5050

[Il Grifone]

The Peco conversion sets for Tri-ang were quite useful. New nylon wheels and a coupling compatible with Peco/HD ones with a little plastic hook to avoid spurious uncoupling. It worked reasonably well with the MK II type, though a bit floppy, but the nylon mounting block for the MkIII tension locks was rather less successful. It took careful setting up and then still didn't work very well. It's better to cut the entire horror off and then fit one of the metal ones IMHO.

 

In fact the hand generator didn't last very long and was replaced by a variable resistance unit to bolt on the top of a battery.

I have three and was going to use the two broken ones (the reversing switch is fragile) to convert two of my Marshall IIIs to vari-wave. (The two I use - The third good one stays in a its box.)

Does anyone know how long the pieces of green wire should be?

 

I intend to disconnect the useless* 12 volt AC 'B' output from its terminals and then connect these across the pulse power switch. The Trix unit will then be connected across the terminals.

 

It's across the traction winding of the mains transformer!