Can you varnish over glazing?

[ColinK]

I’ve just finished detailing and weathering 14 Bachmann coaches in 00 scale.

 

Ideally I would finish them off with a coat of Lifecolour matt varnish to protect the finish. Removing or masking the windows is not realistically possible, so what would happen if I just sprayed the varnish over the glazing as well as the sides and roof?

 

Another option would be to cover the windows with a piece of card while airbrushing the varnish onto the lower sides and roof, then varnish the gaps between the windows with a brush.

 

Any advice appreciated.

[Skinnylinny]

Matt varnish sprayed over glazing will frost the glazing. Any transparent material needs to have a very smooth (i.e. gloss) surface to be properly clear - once the surface gets even the slightest roughness it will look anywhere from "lightly frosted" to opaque, depending on how rough the surface is. Matt varnish works by making the surface less smooth (and thus less reflective) on a very small scale.

[Erixtar1992]

I got gloss laquer on a set of glazing once, absolutely ruined it.  Never again lol

[polybear]

Can you mask the windows with a liquid mask such as maskol?

[Mick Bonwick]

Do you want the sides of your coach to be clean or dirty? If you are modelling a period when there were no coach cleaners employed, your windows would have the same level of dirt as the sides. To my mind this would mean that if the sides were glossy then so would the windows be, but if the sides were matt then the windows would be, too. What can you see in your reference photographs?

[The Johnster]

I have weathered over windows, particularly on NPCCS, and have included the detail of a wiped area where porters have cleaned a van's windows to see what's inside, but this is not the same as varnishing over the windows.  I have also in the past used matt varnish to 'frost' the inside surfaces of toilet windows.  I don't see how you can protect your Bachmann windows, which if they are on mk1s are near flush to the outside of the body, even with maskol, but maskol is probably your best bet.  But it will have to be very finely painted on to the edges of the windows or paint will seep in beneath it at the point at which the clear window plastic curves inwards to the moulded 'frame'.  14 coaches is around 200 windows to do to this degree of exactitude; good luck! 

 

If the coaches are not 'flush' glazed the matters are much easier, but the best method is to remove the glazing altogether, which means removing the body from the chassis.  I've done this with a Hawkworth auto trailer, but it's not for the faint hearted, you come unpleasantly close to breaking the bottom of the coach side as you lever the body outwards, and have to remove any wire or other connections first.  You then replace the glazing after you've painted the coaches and they've dried, but you get an opportunity to detail the interior and put passengers in.

[ColinK]

Many thanks for all your helpful and speedy replies.  I got home early today so have already made progress.

 

The 14 coaches are three rakes and four plus a BG (can be added to one of the rakes) and a DVT (again can be added to one of the rakes).  All except two of the coaches are Mk2s, the others being a Mk1 BG and a DMU driving car converted into an observation car.

 

Checking my books revealed that two of the rakes could be classed as ‘dirty’ one as fairly clean.  The DVT is clean and the BG very dirty (mine isn’t dirty enough).  What  this means in terms of varnish, two rakes should be matt, while the third rake needs matt roofs and satin sides.

 

Two strips of masking tape nicely covered the windows on the Mk2s and I sprayed two of the rakes with matt varnish. I’ve taken the masking tape off and the windows are OK (sigh of relief).  I just need to touch in a couple of places, but the result is fine. The uprights between the windows haven’t been varnished and I’ll leave them as they are. The Mk2s have a noticable tumblehome and the models look like the grey window strip has been washed and is shiny, while the area below it is dirty as the washer doesn’t clean it so well. For the BG I used Maskol on the windows which worked fine, but I do need to add some dirt onto the windows as they are far too clean.

 

For the ‘clean’ set I masked the windows and used matt varnish on the roofs.  The area below the windows needs a coat of satin varnish, but I haven’t got any Lifecolor in stock. I have some Humbrol Satin Cote which might be  OK, but I haven’t tried airbrushing with it yet.

[ColinK]

I’ve ordered some satin varnish to complete some of the coaches.  Here they all are. Interiors have been painted, passengers added and lighting fitted - 11 have battery powered lighting (Layouts4U), one has track powered lighting which I installed (the bogies already had pick ups fitted), one has factory fitted lighting and the BG has none.  The middle rake is a Glasgow Edinburgh push pull set and these coaches have had disc air brakes fitted and been renumbered.

 

[jonnyuk]

wish i had read this yesterday before i added matt varnish to my autocoach last night, my windows are now looking rather wintery (frosty), is there a way to undo this (you live and learn as they say)?

[5050]

Someone I know fitted Extreme Etching's laser cut flush glazing to his coaches, sprayed with Klear and the Klear stuck the windows in place.  They looked fine with the Klear finish as coaches are supposed to be clean - aren't they?

[GRUNFOS]

3 hours ago, ColinK said:

I’ve ordered some satin varnish to complete some of the coaches.  Here they all are. Interiors have been painted, passengers added and lighting fitted - 11 have battery powered lighting (Layouts4U), one has track powered lighting which I installed (the bogies already had pick ups fitted), one has factory fitted lighting and the BG has none.  The middle rake is a Glasgow Edinburgh push pull set and these coaches have had disc air brakes fitted and been renumbered.

 

They look really smart, well done. Do you have a layout for them to run on or details of locos etc?

[ColinK]

Thanks for the kind words.  I’ve an end to end layout built when in my previous house that I exhibit. It’s too long for my current railway room and is due to be dismantled soon; I was hoping to exhibit it one more time but that looks unlikely now.  But when I finish building my current G scale layout, I’ll be building a new 00 layout with both continous run and end to end.  Once I’ve tidied my workbench, I’ll be modifying a couple of Heljan 27s to make a push pull train.  I can replace the 27s with a 47/7 and DBSO.

 

The Regional Railways rake will be powered by a 31 or Co-bo (both are in RR livery) and the Highland set by a 37.

[CKPR]

If you take a tip from the aircraft modellers and  use Johnson's 'Klear' as a satin varnish, then varnishing over the windows will actually improve the transparency.

[ColinK]

20 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

wish i had read this yesterday before i added matt varnish to my autocoach last night, my windows are now looking rather wintery (frosty), is there a way to undo this (you live and learn as they say)?

 Not that I know of, you are likely to make it worse, sorry. Been there and done that too.