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Is railway modelling a kind of roleplay?


TravisM
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I was talking with a friend in the US and the topic of roleplay came up.  He's a big war gamer, dungeons and dragons etc, and said he didn't see the appeal of model railways as you couldn't roleplay on them.  I disagreed as I said that with a model railway, your recreating a scene with not only the railway but time, era etc, and if you have a big layout, your interacting with others and therefore "roleplaying".  Does anyone agree with me on this?

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A model railway can be used for roleplay if you like.  I sort of do this mentally (I mean inside my head, not madly) when operating, imaginarily taking on the roles of signalman, driver, shunter, guard, stationmaster, goods agent, and ‘control’. It adds a dimension of realism that cannot be physically modelled, and gives a life to your railway, and reminds you that there’s more to railways than running trains, though that’s the best bit!

 

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From involvement with designing and building psychometric testing software, I've learnt that both are forms of escapism.

 

War gaming, dungeons and dragons, MRPG, etc, tend to be more attractive to younger people, to sublimate anger and aggression in a fairly harmless way. Whereas, inmates here tend towards older people. Please note the emphasis on tend, as there are (of course) exceptions in both directions, including gender.

 

Some might say they are both fantasy worlds, but I couldn't possibly comment, that might upset some of our Senior Members.

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14 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

A model railway can be used for roleplay if you like.  I sort of do this mentally (I mean inside my head, not madly) when operating, imaginarily taking on the roles of signalman, driver, shunter, guard, stationmaster, goods agent, and ‘control’. It adds a dimension of realism that cannot be physically modelled, and gives a life to your railway, and reminds you that there’s more to railways than running trains, though that’s the best bit!

 

 

Funny you should say that. My most enjoyable evenings in the layout room are often when I don't switch on the layout power. I finish the evening with something to show for my time, like having fitted some windows or interior fitting to a building.

I find this more rewarding than running trains because when I do that, I do little else :biggrin_mini2:

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I don't think modellers usually roleplay in the sense that a wargamer does, in that I don't think anyone plays a character. But there are forms of roleplay.

 

- As other people have mentioned, realistic operation involves taking on roles of different railway staff. We could even work "the human factor" into our operation, e.g. the driver has been taken ill, the shunter has made a mistake etc.

 

- We often populate our layout with characters. We create cameos for our figures. Sometimes, the people on our layouts will have entire backstories. It's a bit of fun, and it can improve realism, if only in our own heads.

 

- Freelance layouts often involve getting into the heads of people - who built the railway? Why? How do other people feel about the railway? What impact did this particular builder have on the way the railway was constructed? We might have to look into real historical figures, or invent our own.

 

So I agree and disagree with jools1959's friend's suggestion. In a way, we roleplay many characters. Perhaps, to put it in D&D terms, a railway modeller is the dungeon master who controls the world.

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Yes to an extent.  

 

In some larger club or group layouts you have a signalman and possibly bell codes. Even they though are not role play, they are signalling or driving the trains. 

With roleplay you are a personality, whereas in model railways you may be driving the trains, so one minute you are controling the passenger local, next the freight and next a light engine.   Overall you are the Control. 

 

Dungeons and dragons, I can see a similarity, specially if you use cards for say shunting operations. This could be extended to other operations, "derailment off site" so initial wrong line working, get out the crane etc. Or "such and such wagon is showing a hotbox" 

 

Not sure beyond this. 

 

 

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Interesting topic. ‘Modelling’ - whether railway, aircraft kits, or anything else - tends to involve varying degrees of making, collecting, and playing (in its simplest of terms), and certainly different people focus on different aspects of the hobby. Some enjoy making yet don’t run things often, while others collect things yet don’t make much from scratch.

 

This is where the hobby of railway modelling is broader than ‘modelmaking’, and as with things like Warhammer, the making, collecting and play elements make up a much wider experience.

 

I wouldn’t describe the performative element as role playing though as the operator rarely assumes another identity within the performance. I don’t think many people visualise themselves actually in the cab for instance, though this is where computer simulators offer more of a role play experience.

 

James Roy King wrote an interesting study of modelling hobbies in the 90s that describes them as attempting to somehow remake the world in a better way - in our own ideal image of how railways should be rather than necessarily how they were/are, and to exert a form of control over the world we have created.

 

So I’d say if there is a role playing element, it is as the ‘hand of god’, the creator and controller of our scale worlds.

 

David

Edited by bmthtrains - David
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No. Not really. I understand where you are coming from but I don't think that role playing is the correct term.

 

I'm vastly more interested in the objects than any "play value" which I don't think there is any. Railway modelling is more operating, you are trying to be realistic.

 

Most of what people do by "playing" is not realistic. If you want to play I would reckon one of those computer programme things could possibly work better.

 

 

As for fantasy. I had a dabble in the 1980s. Interesting hobby. Not as interesting as the people doing it. No "nerds". Most of them looked like members or roadies for Hawkwind. Big hairy arsed bikers that looked like they could use a broadsword. Think more blokes that looked like Lemmy from Motorhead than someone who looks like Harry Potter. Loads of women as well. Beers and that strange smell of ..........

 

All the geeky stuff came in when Games Workshop came in and made it "cool geek", as well as kids cartoons. The other demographic basically moved on. They probably still meet up in secret whilst playing prog rock, drinking Hobgoblin and smoking noxious substances.

 

I preferred painting the figures, then they went a bit rubbish and expensive. Passed most of them on. Now most of them are plastic.

 

Edited by Steamport Southport
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You could argue that volunteers on preserved railways are engaged in a very sophisticated version of roleplay but to me, that term conjures up the idea of adopting a character and a costume and acting the part in a quasi dramatic fashion.

 

I have seen that sort of thing on preserved railways, with people adopting a persona that is quite different to how they are in "real life" but in many cases, it is more about just fulfilling a simple ambition to spend some time being somebody who works on the railway. Something like a 40s weekend with people in character as Dad's army or Churchill would certainly be roleplay as I see it.

 

I see very little of that sort of thing in the model railway hobby. Sure we can be a driver or a signalman but unless we adopt the uniform and go into character, it is not really roleplay in my eyes.  

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It depends what you mean by role play. I've done a bit of the dice rolling type in my time, and some people just enjoy rolling the dice and imagining combat etc - That's not easily done with a model railway. But if you want to role play driver, signaller, yard master etc or the various similar roles on other rail systems then you absolutely can.

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2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I see very little of that sort of thing in the model railway hobby. Sure we can be a driver or a signalman but unless we adopt the uniform and go into character, it is not really roleplay in my eyes

Most d&d style role play doesn't involve wearing chain mail and clanking swords about. It can if you want, but since it mostly happens in your imaginations there's no compulsion to go the whole hog.

 

How about using period/ regional terminology? Personally I don't put on a ridiculous American accent when I play engineer at a Freemo meet, but I do try to use the correct terminology when talking to the guy playing conductor...

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7 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

There are some good examples on YouTube videos of big US layouts. It gets more interesting when an extra train is thrown into the timetable and the various personnel have to work out how to operate the standard timetable around it.


A lot of North American layouts use switch lists where each freight car is given a small “folder”.  At the start of each operating session, the folders are then matched with their freight cars, then destination cards are then shuffled and then placed at random into the freight car folder.

 

I know that sounds very simplistic but it does work as you have to switch the train into it’s correct formation before it departs.  I suppose something similar could be operated here but as I model modern block trains, it doesn’t really apply to me.

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I would agree roleplaying is possible but wouldn't say it's inevitable. As a creator and/or operator, we play a part. We might create back stories to help set a convincing scene or amuse ourselves. I certainly do. In happier times we might interact with others while operating a larger layout but I wouldn't say roleplaying always follows. In a larger scheme, yes, if operation is organised and each person takes responsibility for a particular task (role), then I'd agree 'Fred' plays 'Control' or 'despatcher', and 'Joe' plays a particular driver/signaller. Depending on the people, I could see how some might play up to the part a bit in a theatrical way (very possibly over-acting) and I would count that as roleplaying. But just interacting with others, I'd say it's a social activity rather than roleplaying. 

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The late Ian Hollis ran his layout (Alkham ) to a timetable, and it was very exacting. However, the timetable had to be 'the timetable'.  Ian couldn't cope with improvisation, which is what happens on the 'big' railway. Some operators would run trains out of sequence, just to explore what the layout could achieve. Role playing is ok-ish, to a point, but gets a bit stale after a while, especially if you work through a pre-determined sequence from A to Z.  Adding an extra human element jumbles it up a bit.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

Most d&d style role play doesn't involve wearing chain mail and clanking swords about. It can if you want, but since it mostly happens in your imaginations there's no compulsion to go the whole hog.

 

How about using period/ regional terminology? Personally I don't put on a ridiculous American accent when I play engineer at a Freemo meet, but I do try to use the correct terminology when talking to the guy playing conductor...

 

I think that the very term "roleplaying" can mean quite different things to different people. To some, it is adopting a character or a behaviour that you wouldn't normally undertake in "real life". When I used to have a proper job, much of our training would involve "roleplaying" different situations, which was done in our normal office, at our normal desks, wearing our day to day clothes but yet we were actively engaged in role playing. So it certainly doesn't have to involve a costume element. I am just not sure if a straightforward session operating a layout qualifies as "roleplay" or not. Perhaps, if somebody adopts the "role" of signalman or driver, maybe that is enough to say that it is indeed roleplay but I have never thought of it as such.

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25 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

The late Ian Hollis ran his layout (Alkham ) to a timetable, and it was very exacting. However, the timetable had to be 'the timetable'.  Ian couldn't cope with improvisation, which is what happens on the 'big' railway. Some operators would run trains out of sequence, just to explore what the layout could achieve. Role playing is ok-ish, to a point, but gets a bit stale after a while, especially if you work through a pre-determined sequence from A to Z.  Adding an extra human element jumbles it up a bit.

 

 

 

It is an astonishing ten years since Buckingham came here and it has been operational for around nine years. We have run the same 100 move timetable over and over again without ever getting tired of it in the slightest because there are random elements built in. The Buckingham operator has a choice of several locos to allocate to a particular service but has to work out if a more powerful one might be needed for a heavier train later. The goods shunting is randomised by a coloured dot system and various other aspects can be decided by the operators. There are one or two places in the timetable where running something like a goods a move or two early frees up a road and makes the train that should have preceded it easier to deal with. So you can run the timetable exactly as written but with a few years experience, you learn a few tricks. 

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11 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I am just not sure if a straightforward session operating a layout qualifies as "roleplay" or not.

Depends what happens in the session.

 

I'd say you're roleplaying if you're presented with some kind of problem to solve and then have to behave as if you're the signaller concerned, or the driver etc.

 

But if you're running through a predetermined sequence without having to think as if you're performing some real railway role in miniature then it's not role play.

 

It's all about what goes on in your head when you're operating.

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1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

Depends what happens in the session.

 

I'd say you're roleplaying if you're presented with some kind of problem to solve and then have to behave as if you're the signaller concerned, or the driver etc.

 

But if you're running through a predetermined sequence without having to think as if you're performing some real railway role in miniature then it's not role play.

 

It's all about what goes on in your head when you're operating.

 

I have always understood roleplay to be about adopting a character and/or a way of behaving either to participate in things like training sessions, therapy or a game. Perhaps in that context, operating a model railway is the equivalent of something like a game. However, when I am operating my layout, I am still me and I still act and behave like me! So I don't see how I fit any of the ideas I have about roleplaying. I enjoy solving problems as me and don't need to have a different character or behaviour to do such things.

 

So I really don't see how the way I do things counts as "roleplay" in my understanding of what that term means, even if it involves dealing with the odd curved ball on the layout. 

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