Rails of Sheffield Improved Precedent Class

[spamcan61]

39 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Bachmann have a habit of picking off NRM models that they want in their own collection. Making them for limited special release before then moving them into their own catalogue. 

Seems like a very sensible way of doing business.

[Butler Henderson]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

Bachmann have a habit of picking off NRM models that they want in their own collection. Making them for limited special release before then moving them into their own catalogue. 

That's Bachmanns standard terms for any limited edition, after a period it becomes part of their own range.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Id like to hope so... but NRM with Bachmann seem oblivious to the museums own history. In fact I did speak to those involved with NRM in Miniature and suggested Aerolite with the S&D "Old Gentleman's Saloon" as a combination pack. 

That would sell like proverbial hot cakes, but alas its North Eastern... 

Bachmann have a habit of picking off NRM models that they want in their own collection. Making them for limited special release before then moving them into their own catalogue. Western City class did so, the GNR Atlantics paved the way for the Southern variant which is what Bachmann was after and Hardwick here plugs a gap in its own pre-grouping Midland area which its been doing over the years. While Bachmann have done the J72 and G5 under contract something gives me pause to think much NE stuff might come in a blue box despite pointing out its been obvious for years. That said, Im pleased that Hardwick is getting lots of praise and attention and hopefully will spur a model of either the M1 or Aerolite. So fingers crossed! 

The 'picking off of models\ by Bachmann certainly doesn't work in the way you've suggested.

 

If they do a commissioned model for somebody there is a contractual agreement in respect of what subsequent use can be made of the tooling - a good example is 'City of Truro' where after a certain period Bachmann had the rights to use the tooling for own range models.  As far as the atlantics are concerned while the NRM models obviously assisted in showing how the chassis could be arranged and work successfully Bachmann's own Brighton atlantic shared nothing else with the NRM model - it is completely separate tooling.

 

We don't know what arrangement applies in respect of the 'Precedent' tooling and we need to remember first of all that it is not a stand alone NRM project but a combined NRM/Rails (or is that Rails/NRM?) project so could be subject to totally different contractual arrangements from, say, 'City of Truro'.  In fact Rails have, I think, been rather clever in sweeping up in initial issues what could reasonably considered to be the three most likely best sellers for the model.  True various permutations of minor detail are left but we don't have the faintest idea who - if anybody - will offer them out of a possibility (and no more than that) of it being either Rails or Bachmann.

 

As for NER engines the obvious one to go for as an NRM (now inevitably NRM/Rails) model is 1621 - a nice handy express passenger 4-4-0 which subsequently had a fairly long life as a D17 albeit with some changes.  It ticks the boxes of several livery variants apart from falling into the 'National Collection In Miniature' range plus in n NER livery it is nice to look at as an attractive engine in an equally attractive livery.  And technically it is a much simpler job than making a good 4mm scale runner out of 'Aerolite'  - practicality and achievability is as important as the looks in order to get teh widest possible market.  I don't necessarily disniss 'Aerolite' but I think that 1621 is a more obvious early candidate.

[The Black Hat]

22 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The 'picking off of models\ by Bachmann certainly doesn't work in the way you've suggested.

 

If they do a commissioned model for somebody there is a contractual agreement in respect of what subsequent use can be made of the tooling - a good example is 'City of Truro' where after a certain period Bachmann had the rights to use the tooling for own range models.  As far as the atlantics are concerned while the NRM models obviously assisted in showing how the chassis could be arranged and work successfully Bachmann's own Brighton atlantic shared nothing else with the NRM model - it is completely separate tooling.

 

 
With respect, that's a very round-about way of saying yes it does. Contracts are signed so Bachmann get them eventually, or if not things like the chassis are developed and save masses of costs on developing their own. Its a clever and shrewd way of doing it. It rightly works for Bachmann - but they get more out of it than they let on. 

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

but they get more out of it than they let on. 

 

Any facts to back up your assertions? No? Well keep opinions dressed up as a fact out of it.

[AY Mod]

Well done, you've used the groan button in a negative fashion again and not for its intended purpose. I'll just have to take it off others who had asked for it.

[PaulRhB]

40 minutes ago, The Black Hat said:

Contracts are signed so Bachmann get them eventually, or if not things like the chassis are developed and save masses of costs on developing their own. Its a clever and shrewd way of doing it.

And you don’t think the people at NRM models aren’t as aware of that as you claim to be? You are assuming they are daft yet they accept spreading the risk so it costs less than a total exclusive. Do you really think they didn’t ask for the comparison price and compare it with Dapol and Hornby who they’ve also done exclusives with? I think armchair critics should ask why the NRM is commissioning models over several years yet they aren’t replacing them with their market busting range  

[truffy]

4 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

I'll just have to take it off others because of you.

TBH, I wonder how many will truly miss it.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, truffy said:

TBH, I wonder how many will truly miss it.

 

As long as The Black Hat does. I get fed up of his anti-NER conspiracies; year in, year out.

[PaulRhB]

Well at least some of us are extremely happy with the pics of a model we never expected to see rtr! Dare I say it a little excited and have challenged my father and his Stirling single to a race to the North next year. Yes two generations will have a fun afternoon putting the record straight  
I know some will argue there’s a very good kit but I have other projects that I prefer to spend my time kitbuilding on. I’m not an enthusiastic stock builder as it’s scenery and operation I enjoy so rtr locos are a great way to indulge our other railway interests. 
 

[Huw Griffiths]

34 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Well done, you've used the groan button in a negative fashion again and not for its intended purpose. I'll just have to take it off others because of you.

 

29 minutes ago, truffy said:

TBH, I wonder how many will truly miss it.

 

"Groan!"

 

OK - someone had to say it.

 

Seriously though, I fully understand Andy's frustration etc.

 

Over the years, an irritating minority have made it their business to weaponize otherwise perfectly harmless features of sites like this - or to find other ways of annoying the *#%?@£!* out of the rest of us.

 

I think it would also be reasonable to say that conspiracy theories are getting to be a Problem. They are a proven irritant (even if the theories themselves often get repeatedly debunked).

 

Whether or not anyone here might miss any of the features that end up needing to be be removed, due to the activities of a minority, is of little consequence here.

 

Andy's right to put his foot down.

 

 

Huw.

 

 

 

[daltonparva]

I didn't know we had a groan button.  Can we have it back, and maybe one with a piccy of a pile of pooh, and one with a picture of a semi-clenched fist with movement marks?

 

 

(For any humourless people, the above wasn't a serious request).

Edited November 16, 2020 by daltonparva
There's always one.

[micklner]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

The 'picking off of models\ by Bachmann certainly doesn't work in the way you've suggested.

 

If they do a commissioned model for somebody there is a contractual agreement in respect of what subsequent use can be made of the tooling - a good example is 'City of Truro' where after a certain period Bachmann had the rights to use the tooling for own range models.  As far as the atlantics are concerned while the NRM models obviously assisted in showing how the chassis could be arranged and work successfully Bachmann's own Brighton atlantic shared nothing else with the NRM model - it is completely separate tooling.

 

We don't know what arrangement applies in respect of the 'Precedent' tooling and we need to remember first of all that it is not a stand alone NRM project but a combined NRM/Rails (or is that Rails/NRM?) project so could be subject to totally different contractual arrangements from, say, 'City of Truro'.  In fact Rails have, I think, been rather clever in sweeping up in initial issues what could reasonably considered to be the three most likely best sellers for the model.  True various permutations of minor detail are left but we don't have the faintest idea who - if anybody - will offer them out of a possibility (and no more than that) of it being either Rails or Bachmann.

 

As for NER engines the obvious one to go for as an NRM (now inevitably NRM/Rails) model is 1621 - a nice handy express passenger 4-4-0 which subsequently had a fairly long life as a D17 albeit with some changes.  It ticks the boxes of several livery variants apart from falling into the 'National Collection In Miniature' range plus in n NER livery it is nice to look at as an attractive engine in an equally attractive livery.  And technically it is a much simpler job than making a good 4mm scale runner out of 'Aerolite'  - practicality and achievability is as important as the looks in order to get teh widest possible market.  I don't necessarily disniss 'Aerolite' but I think that 1621 is a more obvious early candidate.

The problem/ possible indication of sales,  with Aerolite (which I would like very much) is that as far as I know ? no one has ever even made a 4mm kit of her. Only used on officers saloons, so limited appeal perhaps?.

 

The preserved D17, J21, Q7 and  E5 Tennant ,are equally more realistic / attractive options.

[PaulRhB]

17 minutes ago, daltonparva said:

a pile of pooh,

is that the collective term for the Pooh Bear display in a Disney store?

 

17 minutes ago, daltonparva said:

 

and one with a picture of a semi-clenched fist with movement marks?

As when the dislike button was tried it just becomes a focus for trolls and negativity.

Best to just have positive ones when some can’t help themselves

 

No let’s stop the wishlists and concentrate on the Precedent  

[Methuselah]

The train. The train. Can we talk about the train....

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 
With respect, that's a very round-about way of saying yes it does. Contracts are signed so Bachmann get them eventually, or if not things like the chassis are developed and save masses of costs on developing their own. Its a clever and shrewd way of doing it. It rightly works for Bachmann - but they get more out of it than they let on. 

Well as it's the appropriate time of year (almost )

'oh no it isn't'.  it depends solely on the relevant contractual agreement for any particular model.

[truffy]

4 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

The train. The train. Can we talk about the train....

If you're referring to the subject of this thread, it's not a train, it's a locomotive. It becomes part of a train when someone sticks stuff on the end.

</pedant>

 

[Methuselah]

1 minute ago, truffy said:

If you're referring to the subject of this thread, it's not a train, it's a locomotive. It becomes part of a train when someone sticks stuff on the end.

</pedant>

 

Actually - it's a toy - if you wish to be really pedantic.

Gawd.....

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

Well done, you've used the groan button in a negative fashion again and not for its intended purpose. I'll just have to take it off others who had asked for it.

 

It's a great shame when a small number of abusers spoil innocent fun. I'd been aiming for maximum groan - I had a post that had rated 22 groans and no other responses and was feeling rather chuffed.

[Oliver Rails]

On 12/11/2020 at 19:16, Synch said:

Lovely thing to see, I had a feeling it might come to fruition and am very glad to see it!  Sets a similar trend to the C1 and Brighton Atlantics in being the first of it's wheel arrangement RTR, let's hope there's more.

 

One curiosity I had was to the LMS Crimson example, aside from what I believe is the first RTR example of this particular transitional livery, but I'm unsure if the wheels would have been fully painted?  Was this typical of Crewe and/or the LMS prior to 1925/26?

 

 

Hi,

 

A massive thank you to everyone who has pre-ordered since the launch. We have had a tremendous response and are really pleased that the model announcement has been so well received.

 

Many thanks for your messages and observations on the livery samples. Bachmann are very thorough with their reporting on livery samples and  I can confirm that the wheels are one issue which had already been reported and the wheels on the final production models will be correctly represented. The finish will be black and outlined yellow. 

 

Thanks
Oliver

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Oliver Rails
addition

[Roy Langridge]

53 minutes ago, truffy said:

If you're referring to the subject of this thread, it's not a train, it's a locomotive. It becomes part of a train when someone sticks stuff on the end.

</pedant>

 

 

Let's not talk about 121s, 153 etc. Years ago I tried to explain to one of my sons what a train was v a loco. He pointed to those and asked if they were a train. Strictly they do contravene the OED definition "A series of connected railway carriages or wagons moved by a locomotive or by integral motors."

 

Always a case to ruin every rule, and a smart $%^* to point it out. Now I know where my son gets it from 

Roy

[9402 Fredrick]

I'm gonna probably pre-order one either tomorrow or next Tuesday as I need one for the layout I'm planning.

Edited November 16, 2020 by 9402 Fredrick

[Craigw]

6 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

As long as The Black Hat does. I get fed up of his anti-NER conspiracies; year in, year out.

 It is a shame you cant have an aluminium foil helmet as an icon.

[john new]

What really surprises me is that the Derwent Valley Light Railway was one of the smallest railway companies in existence but with the announced release of Hardwicke r-t-r it is amazing that such a high percentage of every loco type ever seen at Layerthorpe is now available (or has been announced) in 4mm. Numbers and variants within a class may differ but for a minority interest company the availability of stock is difficult to criticise for just the sake of a rogue white cab roof!

• Manning Wardle  contractors engine - kit?
• NER 1679 (Opening day special) - not yet.
• Sentinel shunter - kits and it was a r-t-r model recently (a new batch?)
• ex-HBR N12 0-6-2 - not yet
• ex-NER G5 - announced
• various NER 0-6-0 tender engines - not yet the exact type, but close approximations yes announced by Oxford.
• Ivatt 2-6-0 - IIRC Bachman did it.
• 2-8-0 WD Austerity - Bachman did it.
• Drewery shunters - kits and r-t-r. (Even if not the exact type very close cousins)
• Class 20 - yes r-t-r 
• Class 08 - yes r-t-r
• Joem - yes r-t-r 
• Hardwicke - announced r-t-r
• Ruston shunter (preservation era) - yes, and correct livery version 'Jim' announced
• Churchill - kit?

 

Anything I've missed?

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by john new

[petethemole]

22 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Let's not talk about 121s, 153 etc. Years ago I tried to explain to one of my sons what a train was v a loco. He pointed to those and asked if they were a train. Strictly they do contravene the OED definition "A series of connected railway carriages or wagons moved by a locomotive or by integral motors."

 

Always a case to ruin every rule, and a smart $%^* to point it out. Now I know where my son gets it from 

Roy

 

On the railway a single vehicle is train, including light engines, railcars or a single wagon in motion (train running away....).