Rails of Sheffield Improved Precedent Class

[Compound2632]

46 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Not clue as to LNWR allocations or where to seek them.

 

That's something I need to look into - I think the LNWR Society (of which I am a member) has some info, possibly in their online archive, but I've not yet located it. Chiefly for lack of trying...

[Edwardian]

Well, rather sinfully, I've now ordered Hardwicke as well. So, that will be 3 Elephants in the Room by the time I'm done. 

 

But, if anyone does dig up a source for LNWR allocations, I will be pathetically grateful.

[PenrithBeacon]

On 09/03/2021 at 09:46, Compound2632 said:

But really, the only think that leaps out at me is the thicker-than-scale flange of the dome and safety valve casings. Am I missing something else?

 

Probably not, but at £220 shouldn't there just be perfection?

[Edwardian]

On 11/03/2021 at 12:05, Edwardian said:

 

Thanks. I think I might manage to deal with that, however!

 

I was thinking more of physically, or affecting areas of complex livery. I assume that the Hardwicke model has fluted rods? If so, I suspect that feature is also more appropriate for Compound/Stephen's 1902 setting and my 1905? 

 

The Lucknow model has the earlier plain rods.

 

The Lucknow model appears to sport two cab roof whistles. This I find hard to spot in pictures, though I think I see two in the picture posted earlier of 1745 John Bright (in which the loco also has plain black rods and no tender rail, suggesting early condition to me). The Hardwicke model seems to have a single whistle, which seems the arrangement in later pictures of the prototypes.  Does anyone have a date for this change please?

 

As it is, to my uneducated glance, it seems that Lucknow has an extra whistle, plain black rods and a lack of tender rails, none which reflects the 1900s condition as I currently understand matters. Of the required changes, replacing the rods and fabricating and fitting coal rails seem non-trivial amendments.

 

Whereas, Hardwicke has the correct rods  (in the correct colour), the desired coal rails, a single whistle, but a white roof and Bowen Cooke (?) buffers. Repainting the roof and replacing the buffers seems preferable, to me, than making the necessary changes to Lucknow. 

 

Unless I've missed some other feature on Hardwicke that would require amendment, I conclude that I have ordered the wrong model!

 

I suppose I could approach LRM over Webb buffers.  I always feel I should order a kit when I ask for spares from LRM (who have always been a pleasure to deal with) because they don't, I think, advertise components as such.  Perhaps this is God's way of telling me to order a Waterloo/Whitworth kit. 

 

 

 

 

 A further difference, I now realise, is that the Hardwicke model has wash-out plugs, which I had failed to spot on any of the photographs of the model; they are there, but hard to see given it's black!

 

Now, that will be an undoubted faff, and not ideal, but weighing matters up, I would rather deal with these than replace the rods on Lucknow or construct tender rails. 

 

One should never expect a manufacturer to make just the version/condition/identity one wants; I am surprised at how many modellers seem to do just that!

 

Anyway; improvise, adapt and overcome!

 

 

[T0ny]

Wouldn't the white roof have become rather grubby as the loco was in service? Therefore it would be many shades of white, grey, black and not one overall colour.

[Compound2632]

6 hours ago, T0ny said:

Wouldn't the white roof have become rather grubby as the loco was in service? Therefore it would be many shades of white, grey, black and not one overall colour.

 

Roofs weren't white in service. The white roof is purely a feature of the Hardwicke as currently preserved.

[john new]

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Roofs weren't white in service. The white roof is purely a feature of the Hardwicke as currently preserved.

Been mentioned before - white roof for posing with the LNWR royal train coaches. Museum only condition. Mine will be as I saw it on three or four blue greys with cab roof black.

[LNWR18901910]

I have good news and bad news:

Good news - I got mine pre-ordered.

Bad news - I tried to order the preserved example but sadly couldn't get through to Locomotion at Shildon.

[Guest Locomotion No. 3]

13 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Bad news - I tried to order the preserved example but sadly couldn't get through to Locomotion at Shildon.

 

Sorry you could not contact us, but at the moment in line with the current Covid-19 restrictions our facilities at Shildon and York remain closed for the time being.

 

We only have access on three days a week for Stuart to deal with telephone calls, emails and orders (including packing and arranging courier collection). This usually takes place on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.

 

Obviously we are all working towards reopening in line within Government guidelines but at the moment please appreciate we are doing our best to continue operating Locomotion Models under somewhat difficult and unusual circumstances.

 

If you would like to PM me with your telephone number or email address I will arrange for Stuart to contact you at the earliest possible opportunity.

 

Dennis Lovett

Locomotion Models

[Brassey]

Will this be sound enabled and if so, which sound file will be used?

 

Are there recordings of Hardwicke when it was in steam?

 

Edit: I’ve since read on the Rails site that the tender has a 21pin socket and a sugar cube 11x15 speaker. No mention of any decoders. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Brassey

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

1 hour ago, Brassey said:

Will this be sound enabled and if so, which sound file will be used?

 

This should do:

 

 

[Edwardian]

Which calls for ...

 

 

[Compound2632]

Presumably the Coal Tank would be the closest-sounding preserve engine, if it could be got to go fast enough...

 

(Roughly speaking, a Coal Tank at 40 mph should simulate a Precedent at 60 mph, though it might clank a bit too much.)

Edited April 27, 2021 by Compound2632

[AlfaZagato]

Stupid question, but is Hardwicke laid up?   If she runs, why not record her?

[Brassey]

On 11/03/2021 at 14:32, Edwardian said:

say Rugby or Northampton way.  Not clue as to LNWR allocations or where to seek them.

 

I only have allocations for 1912 earliest:

 

Northampton

 

‘Large Jumbo’  381 Patterdale, 870 Fairbairn

 

Rugby 

 

‘Large Jumbo’  477 Caractacus, 506 Sir Alexander Cockburn, 517  Marathon, 787 Clarendon, 862 Balmoral, 1480 Newton, 1748 Britannia, 2187 Penrith Beacon, 2192 Caradoc 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Stupid question, but is Hardwicke laid up?   If she runs, why not record her?

 

Its a static exhibit - last steamed in 1982. The problem with using a sound recording from the 1980s will probably be that most of the main line railtours were double-headed, mostly with the Midland Compound 1000 - which has a very different exhaust beat. https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/790-hardwicke-2-4-0-lnwr-precedent-class/.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Compound2632

[Brassey]

13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Its a static exhibit - last steamed in 1982. The problem with using a sound recording from the 1980s will probably be that most of the main line railtours were double-headed, mostly with the Midland Compound 1000 - which has a very different exhaust beat. https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/790-hardwicke-2-4-0-lnwr-precedent-class/.

 

Although most trains do go through my station at a scale 50 mph non-stop, I would intend to have a Precedent (and Whitworth come to that) stop and start on locals.  So would need sound recordings of all motion including stationery.

[Andy Hayter]

4 hours ago, AlfaZagato said:

Stupid question, but is Hardwicke laid up?   If she runs, why not record her?

I am sure she won't have a valid boiler certificate, but if you have several hundred thousand pounds, a team of engineers and a year or so to spare, you might be able to negotiate something.

[MikeParkin65]

3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

I am sure she won't have a valid boiler certificate, but if you have several hundred thousand pounds, a team of engineers and a year or so to spare, you might be able to negotiate something.

I'm pretty sure 790 isnt on the list of loco's that the NRM would consider steaming even if someone came up with the money

[Coal Tank]

Does anyone know if there is scope for EM or P4 conversions 

[New Haven Neil]

I recall seeing Hardwicke in steam at Shildon, and my memory of her sound was she jangled loudly when coasting - I'm not sure if this was a snifting valve (was she superheated? I doubt....) or her valvegear but it was very distinctive.   I don't recall her 'voice' but the coal tank would be a reasonable facsimile I would have thought.

 

I should add I'm an engineer by training (marine diesels) and listen to the sounds any machinery makes very closely!  My father was too, and he had me diagnosing machinery by sounds when I was about ten!

[PaulRhB]

Very limited clip of her under power at 12m39s here

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, New Haven Neil said:

I recall seeing Hardwicke in steam at Shildon, and my memory of her sound was she jangled loudly when coasting - I'm not sure if this was a snifting valve (was she superheated? I doubt....) or her valvegear but it was very distinctive.  

 

Certainly not superheated! But wouldn't that jangling be from the coupling rods?

[PenrithBeacon]

This reply might not be relevant, but a lot of LMS locomotives jangle and it comes from the brake gear rigging. I don't remember it happening pre-preservation and it doesn't happen in the sound tracks of archive cine DVDs.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, PenrithBeacon said:

This reply might not be relevant, but a lot of LMS locomotives jangle and it comes from the brake gear rigging. I don't remember it happening pre-preservation and it doesn't happen in the sound tracks of archive cine DVDs.

 

Old, worn parts that would in normal service have been renewed or re-bushed regularly?