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Rails of Sheffield Improved Precedent Class


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As a follower of early 1930s period LMS and GW prototypes I am so pleased Rails of Sheffield, Locomotion and Bachmann, have come out with the Precendent.   I'll certainly be saving for a LMS Black version.   In my opinion the North Western had some of the most attractive coaches of all the Pre grouping companies so perhaps one day we'll see something to go behind them besides the Ratio's and London Road Model's kits.     The Midland 2-4-0 wold be a great follow up by Locomotion.   They haven't found a  George the Fifth or Claughton at the back of the shed in the NRM yet have they?:D

Edited by Gordieb01
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7 hours ago, Gordieb01 said:

so perhaps one day we'll see something to go behind them besides the Ratio's and London Road Model's kits.   

Yes the existing Stevenson’s Carriages and Worsley Works kits for example and David Geen had a few too before he retired 

Edited by Brassey
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22 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Surely, the Locomotion version is a model of it as it is now or at other times post-preservation.. So that is not a fantasy.

My feeling is that a museum should conserve rather than create. Unfortunately the NRM have got form for this, I can think of the streamlining of the Duchess of Hamilton and a Gresley buffet car which was in typical 1970s condition (arty partition openings and lots of tangerine decorations) but was stripped out and refitted with a made up 1930s interior. On the plus side they made a good job of conserving the Lynton and Barnstable coach rather than trying to restore it to showroom condition, so there must be different departments within the NRM with different objectives. 

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4 minutes ago, Hibelroad said:

My feeling is that a museum should conserve rather than create. Unfortunately the NRM have got form for this, I can think of the streamlining of the Duchess of Hamilton and a Gresley buffet car which was in typical 1970s condition (arty partition openings and lots of tangerine decorations) but was stripped out and refitted with a made up 1930s interior. On the plus side they made a good job of conserving the Lynton and Barnstable coach rather than trying to restore it to showroom condition, so there must be different departments within the NRM with different objectives. 

 

Conservation is always a judgment call, whether with railway equipment or houses. What stage in the life of the item do you want to focus on? There is no "right" answer.

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21 minutes ago, Hibelroad said:

My feeling is that a museum should conserve rather than create.
 

I don’t think painting the roof white to display it with a royal coach is taking a huge liberty in affecting the fabric of the item like you’ve given examples of below ;) 

 

Quote

 

Unfortunately the NRM have got form for this, I can think of the streamlining of the Duchess of Hamilton

But there are other examples of the locomotive in later condition so it was decided showing an example of other companies streamlining, it doesn’t affect the loco fundamentally and can be removed. 

 

Quote

d a Gresley buffet car which was in typical 1970s condition (arty partition openings and lots of tangerine decorations) but was stripped out and refitted with a made up 1930s interior.

Ok this one is more controversial as how many surviving coaches didn’t have modifications later? If you want to show a typical 30’s coach you’d be a little stuck without modifying some back to original condition from camping or works coaches. I think the mission is to show the history so as long as it was recorded well before backdating it I feel it’s a valid decision to backdate certain ones. 

 

Quote

On the plus side they made a good job of conserving the Lynton and Barnstable coach rather than trying to restore it to showroom condition, so there must be different departments within the NRM with different objectives. 

The NRM has to cover several different objectives and reach a balance that not everyone would agree with. The L&B coach is a rare example of being kept in original condition since it was retired and has proved valuable for helping rebuild the others. It’s used to show an example of retired further use which then allowed others like the Gresley coach to be restored to original condition. How would the museum look if it was full of dusty tatty vehicles?  There’s a certain amount of showmanship required in a museum to engage the public and show the glamour of the pre War railways rather than wandering round the average preserved railways items waiting restoration lines of tatty vehicles  ;) 

Edited by PaulRhB
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16 hours ago, Gordieb01 said:

 They haven't found a  George the Fifth or Claughton at the back of the shed in the NRM yet have they?:D

Case of too near but too far, the predecessor to the NRM was within a pointworks distance of having an example of what was once the most powerful 4-6-0 before 1923.. indeed the very locomotives last ever train was specifically to bring a railtour of enthusiasts to the York Museum...

but then it went back that evening and was scrapped at its birth place.

 

http://manlocosoc.co.uk/50455-blackpool.html
 

once the National collection has been modelled, some 1930-1950’s “might have beens” would be nice.

 

interestingly in the article it talks about the pedestrian pace of the trip, departing 1103 and arriving 1308, 2 hours and 5 minutes, with 2 stops. Todays 3 stops is only 25 mins or so faster.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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48 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

4'-6"

 

I suppose that could kill two birds with one stone since the 4'6" 2-4-2T is virtually identical as far as the cab rear spectacle to the popular "Chopper" 2-4-0T. Personally I think the 5'6" engines are more handsome, although less numerous:

5'6" 2-4-2T: 160 (1890-97)

4'6" 2-4-2T: 220 (1879-98)

4'6" 2-4-0T:   50 (1879-80)

Lots of 'em, and long-lived.

Edited by Compound2632
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3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I suppose that could kill two birds with one stone since the 4'6" 2-4-2T is virtually identical as far as the cab rear spectacle to the popular "Chopper" 2-4-0T. Personally I think the 5'6" engines are more handsome, although less numerous:

5'6" 2-4-2T: 160 (1890-97)

4'6" 2-4-2T: 220 (1879-98)

4'6" 2-4-0T:   50 (1879-80)

Lots of 'em, and long-lived.

I have an LRM Radial tank as well as a large Jumbo/Precedent in the kit mountain. Currently building an LRM small jumbo/whitworth starting with the 1800 gal tender.

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17 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Which size would you plump for?

Oh it would need to be the 5'6".  Built from 1890, forty three of them passed into British Railways control in 1948.

With careful choices they could be shedfellows to the Bachmann Super D and Coal tank and share duties with Ivatt 2MT tanks on motor train duties in the early 1950s

 

 wlhc2923-brownhills-railway-station-earl

 

Ironically whilst trying to find an appropriate image of the "Dudley Dasher", I found this

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/banbury_merton_street/banbury(alsop1933)old15.jpg

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Sorry, answering my own question:

 

"Coal rails began to be fitted ... in 1895 ... Most 1,800 gallon tenders in passenger service had them by early 1896 ... and all new 2,000 gallon tenders, even those for goods engines, seem to have been built with them after May 1895." [E. Talbot, An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines (OPC, 1985)].

 

I think Improved Precedents all had circular smokebox doors [Op. cit.]. Llewellyn was "improved" in January 1897 - one of the last - therefore the photo to which @Brassey linked shows the original, "unimproved" engine.

 

Lucknow was "improved" in May 1891 so Rails' model depicts it between that date and at latest early 1896. But it's their only version with Webb buffers so I'm sticking.

Edited by Compound2632
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On 13/11/2020 at 15:07, Compound2632 said:

 

I would say 1621 is now a dead cert. 

 

Id like to hope so... but NRM with Bachmann seem oblivious to the museums own history. In fact I did speak to those involved with NRM in Miniature and suggested Aerolite with the S&D "Old Gentleman's Saloon" as a combination pack. 

That would sell like proverbial hot cakes, but alas its North Eastern... 

Bachmann have a habit of picking off NRM models that they want in their own collection. Making them for limited special release before then moving them into their own catalogue. Western City class did so, the GNR Atlantics paved the way for the Southern variant which is what Bachmann was after and Hardwick here plugs a gap in its own pre-grouping Midland area which its been doing over the years. While Bachmann have done the J72 and G5 under contract something gives me pause to think much NE stuff might come in a blue box despite pointing out its been obvious for years. That said, Im pleased that Hardwick is getting lots of praise and attention and hopefully will spur a model of either the M1 or Aerolite. So fingers crossed! 

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