RMweb Premium Gordieb01 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) As a follower of early 1930s period LMS and GW prototypes I am so pleased Rails of Sheffield, Locomotion and Bachmann, have come out with the Precendent. I'll certainly be saving for a LMS Black version. In my opinion the North Western had some of the most attractive coaches of all the Pre grouping companies so perhaps one day we'll see something to go behind them besides the Ratio's and London Road Model's kits. The Midland 2-4-0 wold be a great follow up by Locomotion. They haven't found a George the Fifth or Claughton at the back of the shed in the NRM yet have they? Edited November 14, 2020 by Gordieb01 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2020 9 hours ago, Brassey said: 364 Henry Pease, 864 Pilot, 869 Llewellyn, 512 Lazonby, 861 Amazon, 1517 Princess Helena, 1677 Badajos, 1685 Gladiator, 2185 Alma Any particular rationale for that selection? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Any particular rationale for that selection? Possible candidates to have appeared on the Shrewsbury to Hereford GWR/LNWR joint line in 1912 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Gordieb01 said: so perhaps one day we'll see something to go behind them besides the Ratio's and London Road Model's kits. Yes the existing Stevenson’s Carriages and Worsley Works kits for example and David Geen had a few too before he retired Edited November 14, 2020 by Brassey 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibelroad Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 22 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Surely, the Locomotion version is a model of it as it is now or at other times post-preservation.. So that is not a fantasy. My feeling is that a museum should conserve rather than create. Unfortunately the NRM have got form for this, I can think of the streamlining of the Duchess of Hamilton and a Gresley buffet car which was in typical 1970s condition (arty partition openings and lots of tangerine decorations) but was stripped out and refitted with a made up 1930s interior. On the plus side they made a good job of conserving the Lynton and Barnstable coach rather than trying to restore it to showroom condition, so there must be different departments within the NRM with different objectives. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hibelroad said: My feeling is that a museum should conserve rather than create. Unfortunately the NRM have got form for this, I can think of the streamlining of the Duchess of Hamilton and a Gresley buffet car which was in typical 1970s condition (arty partition openings and lots of tangerine decorations) but was stripped out and refitted with a made up 1930s interior. On the plus side they made a good job of conserving the Lynton and Barnstable coach rather than trying to restore it to showroom condition, so there must be different departments within the NRM with different objectives. Conservation is always a judgment call, whether with railway equipment or houses. What stage in the life of the item do you want to focus on? There is no "right" answer. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Hibelroad said: My feeling is that a museum should conserve rather than create. I don’t think painting the roof white to display it with a royal coach is taking a huge liberty in affecting the fabric of the item like you’ve given examples of below Quote Unfortunately the NRM have got form for this, I can think of the streamlining of the Duchess of Hamilton But there are other examples of the locomotive in later condition so it was decided showing an example of other companies streamlining, it doesn’t affect the loco fundamentally and can be removed. Quote d a Gresley buffet car which was in typical 1970s condition (arty partition openings and lots of tangerine decorations) but was stripped out and refitted with a made up 1930s interior. Ok this one is more controversial as how many surviving coaches didn’t have modifications later? If you want to show a typical 30’s coach you’d be a little stuck without modifying some back to original condition from camping or works coaches. I think the mission is to show the history so as long as it was recorded well before backdating it I feel it’s a valid decision to backdate certain ones. Quote On the plus side they made a good job of conserving the Lynton and Barnstable coach rather than trying to restore it to showroom condition, so there must be different departments within the NRM with different objectives. The NRM has to cover several different objectives and reach a balance that not everyone would agree with. The L&B coach is a rare example of being kept in original condition since it was retired and has proved valuable for helping rebuild the others. It’s used to show an example of retired further use which then allowed others like the Gresley coach to be restored to original condition. How would the museum look if it was full of dusty tatty vehicles? There’s a certain amount of showmanship required in a museum to engage the public and show the glamour of the pre War railways rather than wandering round the average preserved railways items waiting restoration lines of tatty vehicles Edited November 14, 2020 by PaulRhB 3 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2020 The only valid purpose of preserving the BR interior within the Gresley Buffet Car would have been to serve as a dreadful warning of what can result from pursuing fashion without regard to taste. John 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 16 hours ago, Gordieb01 said: They haven't found a George the Fifth or Claughton at the back of the shed in the NRM yet have they? A Radial 2-4-2 tank would also be very nice 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Covkid said: A Radial 2-4-2 tank would also be very nice Which size would you plump for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Gordieb01 said: They haven't found a George the Fifth or Claughton at the back of the shed in the NRM yet have they? Case of too near but too far, the predecessor to the NRM was within a pointworks distance of having an example of what was once the most powerful 4-6-0 before 1923.. indeed the very locomotives last ever train was specifically to bring a railtour of enthusiasts to the York Museum... but then it went back that evening and was scrapped at its birth place. http://manlocosoc.co.uk/50455-blackpool.html once the National collection has been modelled, some 1930-1950’s “might have beens” would be nice. interestingly in the article it talks about the pedestrian pace of the trip, departing 1103 and arriving 1308, 2 hours and 5 minutes, with 2 stops. Todays 3 stops is only 25 mins or so faster. Edited November 14, 2020 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Which size would you plump for? A compound 2-2-2-2 would be brilliant! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, PenrithBeacon said: A compound 2-2-2-2 would be brilliant! Which size would you plump for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4'-6" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said: 4'-6" I suppose that could kill two birds with one stone since the 4'6" 2-4-2T is virtually identical as far as the cab rear spectacle to the popular "Chopper" 2-4-0T. Personally I think the 5'6" engines are more handsome, although less numerous: 5'6" 2-4-2T: 160 (1890-97) 4'6" 2-4-2T: 220 (1879-98) 4'6" 2-4-0T: 50 (1879-80) Lots of 'em, and long-lived. Edited November 14, 2020 by Compound2632 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REAL-PHOTOGRAPH-OF-BUXTON-LNWR-RAILWAY-STATION-LNWR-COMPOUND-LOCO-NO-600-/233777275859?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292 This is currently on eBay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Compound2632 said: I suppose that could kill two birds with one stone since the 4'6" 2-4-2T is virtually identical as far as the cab rear spectacle to the popular "Chopper" 2-4-0T. Personally I think the 5'6" engines are more handsome, although less numerous: 5'6" 2-4-2T: 160 (1890-97) 4'6" 2-4-2T: 220 (1879-98) 4'6" 2-4-0T: 50 (1879-80) Lots of 'em, and long-lived. I have an LRM Radial tank as well as a large Jumbo/Precedent in the kit mountain. Currently building an LRM small jumbo/whitworth starting with the 1800 gal tender. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 17 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Which size would you plump for? Oh it would need to be the 5'6". Built from 1890, forty three of them passed into British Railways control in 1948. With careful choices they could be shedfellows to the Bachmann Super D and Coal tank and share duties with Ivatt 2MT tanks on motor train duties in the early 1950s Ironically whilst trying to find an appropriate image of the "Dudley Dasher", I found this http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/banbury_merton_street/banbury(alsop1933)old15.jpg 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 https://www.facebook.com/groups/109619289726001/permalink/308201896534405/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brassey said: https://www.facebook.com/groups/109619289726001/permalink/308201896534405/ Note the top-hinged smokebox door. I don't think I have to hand the date from which circular smokebox doors were fitted or tender coal rails? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Sorry, answering my own question: "Coal rails began to be fitted ... in 1895 ... Most 1,800 gallon tenders in passenger service had them by early 1896 ... and all new 2,000 gallon tenders, even those for goods engines, seem to have been built with them after May 1895." [E. Talbot, An Illustrated History of LNWR Engines (OPC, 1985)]. I think Improved Precedents all had circular smokebox doors [Op. cit.]. Llewellyn was "improved" in January 1897 - one of the last - therefore the photo to which @Brassey linked shows the original, "unimproved" engine. Lucknow was "improved" in May 1891 so Rails' model depicts it between that date and at latest early 1896. But it's their only version with Webb buffers so I'm sticking. Edited November 15, 2020 by Compound2632 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Well, that's my order for 'Lucknow' placed... Starting to stray further and further from my GER allegiances it seems! 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Precedents would have shared Cambridge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Rails have posted on their Facebook page that these are selling really well. That should hopefully encourage other models. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 On 13/11/2020 at 15:07, Compound2632 said: I would say 1621 is now a dead cert. Id like to hope so... but NRM with Bachmann seem oblivious to the museums own history. In fact I did speak to those involved with NRM in Miniature and suggested Aerolite with the S&D "Old Gentleman's Saloon" as a combination pack. That would sell like proverbial hot cakes, but alas its North Eastern... Bachmann have a habit of picking off NRM models that they want in their own collection. Making them for limited special release before then moving them into their own catalogue. Western City class did so, the GNR Atlantics paved the way for the Southern variant which is what Bachmann was after and Hardwick here plugs a gap in its own pre-grouping Midland area which its been doing over the years. While Bachmann have done the J72 and G5 under contract something gives me pause to think much NE stuff might come in a blue box despite pointing out its been obvious for years. That said, Im pleased that Hardwick is getting lots of praise and attention and hopefully will spur a model of either the M1 or Aerolite. So fingers crossed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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