Hornby Class 142 Pacer

[gnairn23]

I'am useless at fixing model trains, better at breaking them apparently.

I can live with it not being a runner anymore, and I suppose I already have a Pacer in my fleet.

It is a shame but as you said spending £20 for a diagnosis doesn't sit right with me, at least Harburn hobbies said no spare piece, no repair.

 

[gnairn23]

I managed to get the grey Regional Railways one from Olivia's trains..

 

 

It has a motor in each car whereas the Northern Spirit one has just one motor and the other car is a dummy.

Common wisdom is that the 2 motored ones run better.

Edited November 13, 2020 by gnairn23

[JDW]

The coupling should be a simple fix, although I can't find the actual coupling bar anywhere at the minute. Looking at your pic, other parts needed will probably be a pair oc coupling pins which hold the bars, and circlips which hold the bars on to the arms:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/00-Hornby-SPARES-L5370-PACER-COUPLING-PEG-RIVET/402267844287?hash=item5da9082ebf:g:HEEAAOSw9BRexCSj

and 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-L5089-APT-Class-142-Coupling-Circlip/323911010110?hash=item4b6a99c73e:g:b6IAAOSwZkFdd6ER

 

Apologies for bluntness but as far as uncoupling the two vehicles goes, 'you shouldn't uncouple them' sounds like something you'd hear from the same people who will still tell you 'Lemur* trains are the best you can buy'

(*as in Lima).

It's nonsense. Besides the obvious - being careful and pulling them apart/pushing them together straight so you don't bend the electrical contacts - there is zero reason not to. They come separately in the box and need to be separated to go back in. They're designed to couple and uncouple. Forget that 'advice' altogether.

 

The earlier versions (Provincial blue, GMPTE orange, Regional Railways, TWPTE yellow and GMPTE) had motors in both cars and no electrical connection between the two. I'd say the idea they run better is fine for running on a train set at speed, but it doesn't do much to help slow speed running. In practice one vehicle might push/pull the other off a dead spot if it stalls when it has a bit of speed/momentum, but it's not very refined or smooth, and being pretty light with one driven axle, isn't always the case especially at low speed. 

Like the one in your first picture, my two older ones have had both cars electrically connected so each motor is picking up from 4 wheels on each side instead of two, and both are working together all the time, which is much better. 

 

The later versions such as the Northern Spirit and Northern, Merseyrail yellow and First Great Western blue have one motor per set, fitted with traction tyres, and simple but effective electrical connections added on to the bottom of the couplings as you have seen on yours. to provide pick up from the other three wheels on each side. These seem to work much better and are easier to fit a DCC decoder to if you use DCC. 

 

If I were modifying an older one again I'd try and replace the coupling with the one with electrical contacts but mine are just permanently wired together - they are 'layout units' not collectors items  that have to go back in their box so it doesn't matter, it just makes it mildly awkward to handle them. The two versions of the couplings are identical apart from one having the electrical connection attached. There might be some pictures of the underside on my thread somewhere, I can't remember:

 

I can't see many model shops wanting to try and fix it these days, the old fashioned model shop with parts in stock and able to do that are thin on the ground these days. I definitely wouldn't be taking it somewhere which will charge you £20 to tell you what you already know (coupling broken, you need new parts, and some wire soldering). If you're really stuck, once the parts are available, message me and I'll see if I can collect it and sort it for you next time I'm passing Glasgow way. 

[gnairn23]

32 minutes ago, JDW said:

The coupling should be a simple fix, although I can't find the actual coupling bar anywhere at the minute. Looking at your pic, other parts needed will probably be a pair oc coupling pins which hold the bars, and circlips which hold the bars on to the arms:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/00-Hornby-SPARES-L5370-PACER-COUPLING-PEG-RIVET/402267844287?hash=item5da9082ebf:g:HEEAAOSw9BRexCSj

and 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-L5089-APT-Class-142-Coupling-Circlip/323911010110?hash=item4b6a99c73e:g:b6IAAOSwZkFdd6ER

 

Apologies for bluntness but as far as uncoupling the two vehicles goes, 'you shouldn't uncouple them' sounds like something you'd hear from the same people who will still tell you 'Lemur* trains are the best you can buy'

(*as in Lima).

It's nonsense. Besides the obvious - being careful and pulling them apart/pushing them together straight so you don't bend the electrical contacts - there is zero reason not to. They come separately in the box and need to be separated to go back in. They're designed to couple and uncouple. Forget that 'advice' altogether.

 

The earlier versions (Provincial blue, GMPTE orange, Regional Railways, TWPTE yellow and GMPTE) had motors in both cars and no electrical connection between the two. I'd say the idea they run better is fine for running on a train set at speed, but it doesn't do much to help slow speed running. In practice one vehicle might push/pull the other off a dead spot if it stalls when it has a bit of speed/momentum, but it's not very refined or smooth, and being pretty light with one driven axle, isn't always the case especially at low speed. 

Like the one in your first picture, my two older ones have had both cars electrically connected so each motor is picking up from 4 wheels on each side instead of two, and both are working together all the time, which is much better. 

 

The later versions such as the Northern Spirit and Northern, Merseyrail yellow and First Great Western blue have one motor per set, fitted with traction tyres, and simple but effective electrical connections added on to the bottom of the couplings as you have seen on yours. to provide pick up from the other three wheels on each side. These seem to work much better and are easier to fit a DCC decoder to if you use DCC. 

 

If I were modifying an older one again I'd try and replace the coupling with the one with electrical contacts but mine are just permanently wired together - they are 'layout units' not collectors items  that have to go back in their box so it doesn't matter, it just makes it mildly awkward to handle them. The two versions of the couplings are identical apart from one having the electrical connection attached. There might be some pictures of the underside on my thread somewhere, I can't remember:

 

I can't see many model shops wanting to try and fix it these days, the old fashioned model shop with parts in stock and able to do that are thin on the ground these days. I definitely wouldn't be taking it somewhere which will charge you £20 to tell you what you already know (coupling broken, you need new parts, and some wire soldering). If you're really stuck, once the parts are available, message me and I'll see if I can collect it and sort it for you next time I'm passing Glasgow way. 

 

This is all a great help.

I'll keep an eye out for the spare coupling, but for now she is a non-runner.

Beautiful, yes, but a non-runner all the same.

 

One question, but version of the 142 do you think performs best the older twin motored train or the newer train with just one motor?

 

Luckily my great Regional Railways model ( the one in picture above ) came with the electrical connectors that are used on the newer models. They must have been installed by a previous owner.

 

I Think the Regional Railways model has the optimum level of performance, consensus is 2 motors better than 1 and electric couplings and better than no electric couplings.

 

[JDW]

I think you summed it up right, the twin motor wired together combination works better I think. The single motor version runs fine too, but the traction tyres tend to cause a bit of drag on curves, and of course only has three axles to pick up from. My twin-motored one runs as a 5-car set with a (unpowered) 144 which it manages fine on the flat. My newer single-motor one runs as a 4-car set with a second unpowered unit and again it copes fine. The older ones have had the inner wheels replaced with newer (finer) Hornby coach ones, which are much better and improved pick-up too. 

[gnairn23]

yeah my one motored one stutters a lot and someone doesn't make it round the circuit at all. Whereas the older one made it round a couple circuit in one go.

Do you electrically couple the two trains, how do you think that improves performance?

[ColinK]

Could you put a second motor in the unit with only one?

[JDW]

It's possible, the chassis are pretty much the same, just without the motor. It's not the motor that's the issue though if it won't run without stopping, and fitting a second will do nothing to help - if one motor is stalling, two motors relying on the same six wheels for pick up will just stall at the same time. The priority should be checking that:

- The wheels are clean

- The backs of the wheels where the pickups touch are clean

- The pickups are clean
- The pickups are able to stay in contact with the wheels as they move sideways - they might need slight tweaking to make sure both sides stay in contact all the time. 

If those things aren't right, you could attach six motors and they'd still all just stall at the same time. 

 

Remember too that if you install a second motor, you'd need to use one like on the older units without traction tyres otherwise you're down to two axles picking up power. 

 

 

My sets that run in multiple only pick up on the unit with the motor, the second is just a dummy unit with no motor or electrics of any kind. Other than needing to keep on top of the speed (the extra drag of a 5-vehicle set around even gentle curves requires a bit more power to maintain the same speed) it runs fine.  My sets are (M=motorised vehicle, u=unpowered vehicle)

142048: [142M+142M]

142023 + 144012: [142M+142M]--[144u+144u+144u]

142074 + 142065: [142M=142u]--[142u+142u]

 

(to answer the next question before someone asks: why is the powered vehicle at the outer end of the 4-car set? Because the decoder is mounted in the empty space below the cab so no room to fit a coupling at that end)

 

[gnairn23]

A lot of people say that Hornby cheapened things with the newer one motor model and that the older 2 motored model ran better. In my experience I'd say this is true, my Nothern Spirit one doesn't;t make it round the track where as the older Regional Railways made it round the first time.

[JDW]

What do you mean by "won't make it round" though? I presume stops because it has no power? That's a pick-up issue, and the single-motor is picking up from more axles than the original (3 axles --> one motor versus 2 axles --> 2 motors each). I'd say both have plusses and minusses. One motor+traction tyre = better grip, but one less axle for pick up. All of my sets will crawl at walking pace on clean wheels and clean track.

[gnairn23]

would any of you guys pay £20 for a diagnosis when they might say it is irrepariable? 

[smokebox]

5 minutes ago, gnairn23 said:

would any of you guys pay £20 for a diagnosis when they might say it is irrepariable? 

 

Personally, no but I'm tight and could probably fix it or make a replacement myself.

[gnairn23]

I don't mind paying it's just, I think it's likely they will say we cannot repair it without the original part.

They did say a clean was part of the £20 charge...

[smokebox]

What's the point of cleaning it?  I'd be looking for another repairer, but that's just me.

[gnairn23]

Glasgow used to have pastimes in the North West of the city but sadly it has closed down.

Harburn Hobbies in Edinburgh has flat out said that the Locomotive is irreparable without the correct coupler and pickup part.

Due to a respected shop like Harburn Hobbies saying it is irreparable, I only imagine wildcat models saying the same.

[Joseph_Pestell]

48 minutes ago, gnairn23 said:

would any of you guys pay £20 for a diagnosis when they might say it is irrepariable? 

 

No. because I know that it is repairable and I would do it myself.

[Talltim]

When I was about 12 I had an GMPTE orange set, with a motor in both cars and no electrical connection. I wired in a connection using some Lego wires and plugs

[gnairn23]

I can't get my head around how you'd repair It without the coupler. Can you put a new coupler in and then wiring them up?

[Joseph_Pestell]

7 minutes ago, gnairn23 said:

I can't get my head around how you'd repair It without the coupler. Can you put a new coupler in and then wiring them up?

 

Just as a coupler, ignoring the wiring, it seems to be intact and could be used. Just a question of running new wires then.

[gnairn23]

I'am tempted to take the train into Wildcat and see if they say the same as a few guys on here, that it is repairable.

£20 for a diagnosis though, and after that they might say they can't fix it, is a bit of a risk.

[cctransuk]

3 minutes ago, gnairn23 said:

I'am tempted to take the train into Wildcat and see if they say the same as a few guys on here, that it is repairable.

£20 for a diagnosis though, and after that they might say they can't fix it, is a bit of a risk.

 

Don't waste your money - it IS fixable, but they won't want to do it.

 

Do you have a local model club - someone there would fix it in no time?

 

John. Isherwood.

[gnairn23]

Unfortunately  no local model club, the model railway scene in Glasgow is a bit dead now. I'd usually of went to Pastimes in Maryhill but that is closed down now.

Ohwell, guess I'll have to wait and see if the spare coupler becomes available.

[JDW]

With respect, if all you want is a diagnosis, there is absolutely no way you should be taking it somewhere to be charged 20 quid to be told exactly what I and others have told you here already. In terms of parts, all you need are the circlips, the pins, and the (currently out of stock) coupling bars. Since the parts are not in stock there is absolutely no point taking it there. Coupling bars may appear on ebay from time to time as well as from spares stockists, and are likely to be available at some point in the future, even if not next week.

 

There's a difference between the repair you will get from a model shop (who would just fit the same parts) and whether something is repairable. If the parts were completely unavailable, it's easy to still repair it and make it runnable. If it were mine, I'd just make 2 new pivot pins from plastic rod, and use a piece of plastic section with a round hole in each end. I'd put it over one pivot, glue something larger on to stop it falling off, then to couple all you need is to slot it over the other one. That' essentially all the Hornby coupling is. I'd use some miniature plug/sockets for the electrical connection. It's not a hard job, but a model shop wouldn't do that, they'd just supply and fit original parts. A modeller probably would/could, in less than half an hour.

 

Edited November 14, 2020 by JDW

[gnairn23]

okay man thanks for the post.

That was my thinking, I got a diagnosis here so why pay £20 for it in a model shop.

I'll keep my eye on the spare coupler part to become available again.

Hopefully I'll bump into a competent modeller who could fix it properly.

It was a Christmas present in 2000 from my parents and it is one of my favourite models, but for now it is a non runner!

[stewartingram]

Give me a PM?