62C Models NBR Coaches - making a start on a second 4 wheeler

[brossard]

As my 6 wheeled BR brake moves (slowly) to completion, I made a start on the subject kit.

 

I'm doing this for a friend, but, truth be told, I am a secret admirer of pre grouping.

 

The kit itself seems to be very well designed and well thought out.  Things are going together in a straightforward way.  I think my main beefs with the kit are that:

 

1)  There are no drawings of the prototype

 

2)  There are no assembly drawings in the instructions.  Describing what must be done is all very well, but pictures really are worth a thousand words.  I do feel that I'm working blind.

 

I have obtained a few pictures so they will no doubt help.

 

I have been at this just a couple of days and have the underframe well advanced:

 

 

 

Solebars and steps are fold ups.  There's a solebar overlay and reinforcing overlay that wraps around the buffer beam.  There are 28 bearing plates around the edge of the underframe.  I have no idea what the purpose of these is, hopefully this will become clear.

 

 

 

The spring and axlebox etches are in two parts and are laminated together.  I don't know if the axlebox bearers are supposed to be bent out as you see or whether they go the other way.  A small sketch in the instructions would have been useful.

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[brossard]

Work continued on the underframe today:

 

 

I got the lower steps on.  I like the lost wax hangers.  The gas cylinder bracket is in place.  I will hold off on fixing the WM cylinder itself until the soldering is done. 

 

I also positioned the Westinghouse air brake cylinder and reservoir.

 

I am somewhat vexed in that there is no info in the kit on the layout of the brakes, or indeed on much of anything under the solebars.  I'm pretty sure there should be vee hangers for the brake crank and actuation.

 

Perhaps someone could fill in the blanks.

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[Western Star]

1 hour ago, brossard said:

I am somewhat vexed in that there is no info in the kit on the layout of the brakes, or indeed on much of anything under the solebars.  I'm pretty sure there should be vee hangers for the brake crank and actuation.

 

Perhaps someone could fill in the blanks.

This book might be of help to you.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Western Star

[brossard]

8 minutes ago, Western Star said:

This book might be of help to you.

 

Thanks, I'm just the builder so I have forwarded the link to my friend.  He may have it.

 

John

[Nick Holliday]

17 hours ago, brossard said:

The kit itself seems to be very well designed and well thought out.  Things are going together in a straightforward way.  I think my main beefs with the kit are that:

1)  There are no drawings of the prototype

2)  There are no assembly drawings in the instructions.  Describing what must be done is all very well, but pictures really are worth a thousand words.  I do feel that I'm working blind.

I have obtained a few pictures so they will no doubt help.

 

 

Solebars and steps are fold ups.  There's a solebar overlay and reinforcing overlay that wraps around the buffer beam.  There are 28 bearing plates around the edge of the underframe.  I have no idea what the purpose of these is, hopefully this will become clear.

 

The spring and axlebox etches are in two parts and are laminated together.  I don't know if the axlebox bearers are supposed to be bent out as you see or whether they go the other way.  A small sketch in the instructions would have been useful.

 

John

The NBR Study book doesn't provide a drawing regarding a 1908 full brake, but it does have one for an earlier, 1894, design, and it has some general details which may be useful.

I can't help on the instructions front, I'm afraid, but the bearing plates represent the 1" packing pieces which the NBR used to separate the body structure from the underframe. I think this was a common feature on many lines, and seldom, if ever, modelled, but perhaps more pronounced on the NBR. The locations of them on the 1894 van drawing are slightly different from the way yours are arranged, but that could be correct for the later vehicle.

Expect a PM

[brossard]

Thanks Nick, I expect the details I am after are probably common across several coaches.

 

Interesting about the "packing pieces", it did cross my mind that that was the purpose.  Good to know.

 

John

 

[brossard]

I got a little further today:

 

 

You will notice the main thing is that I have done the trussing.  I was provided with a drawing of a Drummond Passenger Brake Van from 1881 and made the assumption that the trussing on this van would be similar.  The 1881 van has centrally located opposed leaf springs for the couplings and buffers.  I didn't do that because I couldn't see how that would fit.  If anyone can advise on that, I would appreciate that.

 

My method for the trussing was to cut out the sub floor from 0.5mm plastic sheet.  I used a general purpose adhesive to glue it down.  The trusses were cut to length and installed.  The center trusses are wider ( 0.100 x 0.156") than the outer ones (0.060 x 0.156").

 

I decided that the air reservoir had to be repositioned because it's original position interfered with the truss.  It's current position is consistent with the 1881 van.

 

Wheel bearings are installed into carriers and steel wire threaded at the bottom.  The wire had to be trimmed and the tab holes reamed a bit.  The fit is good.  The wheels fit into their bearings easily enough.  A quick run on the layout showed excellent smooth performance.

 

You might notice that the areas around the W irons are black.  I prepainted these because it would be difficult to get paint into here later.

 

The instructions say to solder the axle boxes to the W irons.  I have two concerns about that:

 

1)  The ends of the bearings are either a bit proud of the W iron or very close, meaning a potential foul.

 

2)  The bearings really ought to be in the axle boxes and move up and down with the sprung wheels.

 

Thoughts about that?

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[brossard]

Today's work session involved fitting brakes.

 

 

 

The brake actuator looks like it moves to the right to apply brakes and to the left to release.  This means to me that the brakes on the right get pushed and those on the left, pulled.

 

Does anyone know different?

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[brossard]

I've been thinking about the Westinghouse brake system.  I'm pretty sure, after finding a schematic of an American wagon, that the brake cylinder does push on a crank but this is translated to a pull force by other cranks.  I suspect the brake cylinder pushes outward in both directions when air is introduced.

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brake_Diagram.png#/media/File:Brake_Diagram.png

 

Can anyone advise me on how this might have worked on early UK stock?

 

John

[Nick Holliday]

13 hours ago, brossard said:

Today's work session involved fitting brakes.

 

 

The brake actuator looks like it moves to the right to apply brakes and to the left to release.  This means to me that the brakes on the right get pushed and those on the left, pulled.

 

Does anyone know different?

 

John

The Westinghouse brake cylinder works by pushing the actuating rods out as the brake is applied.  The way you have built it the situation on the right is correct. There should be a supporting rod (yellow) from the point where the inside brake yoke meets the operating crank to the central chassis members, and probably a safety loop (green) to support the outside yoke in the event of a failure. As the cylinder pushes in both directions, I think the other end should be a mirror image, so I think you might have built it the wrong way round.

As the brake rod pushes to the right, the actuating crank pivots on the fulcrum, causing the right hand yoke to be drawn towards the left yoke, applying the brakes.  The fulcrum support is itself pivoted at the chassis, allowing the system to be self-compensating.

I think on your parallel 6 wheeler thread you have questioned how the single spring for buffers and drawhook could work. The drawing I've attached shows that the Westinghouse cylinder is set below the chassis members, leaving plenty of room for the spring itself and the drawhook rod.

5 hours ago, brossard said:

I've been thinking about the Westinghouse brake system.  I'm pretty sure, after finding a schematic of an American wagon, that the brake cylinder does push on a crank but this is translated to a pull force by other cranks.  I suspect the brake cylinder pushes outward in both directions when air is introduced.

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Brake_Diagram.png#/media/File:Brake_Diagram.png

 

Can anyone advise me on how this might have worked on early UK stock?

 

John

That diagram is for a bogie carriage.  According to Mike Williams (Caledonian Coaches) and G W M Sewell (NBR) the arrangement on bogie coaches involved offset brake cylinder and a system of cranks and springs to generate a pulling drive on the rods to the bogies, perhaps to facilitate accommodating the installation of a dual vacuum brake.

[brossard]

Thanks for the reply Nick.  In my experience with vacuum brakes, the actuation is always in the pull direction, since trying to exert a pushing force through a long small dia rod would be a problem I think.

 

My RH arrangement is right probably because I copied the drawing that you have reproduced.

 

I'm no stranger to building things the wrong way round, which is why I have paused to get some advice. 

 

I'll have another think about the buffer/coupling spring.

 

John

[brossard]

So, I've been labouring away at the underframe:

 

 

As Nick advised I have changed the brake linkages to be mirror image and added push rods.  These should also get safety loops I think.

 

There are safety loops around the center link and the yokes.

 

There is a representation of the air pipe and I have guessed at the plumbing between the reservoir, cylinder and air pipe.

 

 

 

I have a feeling that this is a vacuum pipe.

 

 

 

I suspect that this is the air pipe.  No big deal to change, just want to make sure I'm right here.

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[NBR906]

Attached is a rough outline of how the brake rigging should be on this carriage.

Only the actuating rods from the Westinghouse cylinder to the weigh bar can really be seen below the chassis.

  

Please note that the Westinghouse reservoir is marked in the correct place.

This Bk3 is longer than the PBV you are referring to for the chassis structure and this vehicle has additional cross framing.

 

Yes that is a vacuum pipe you have fitted, the Westinghouse pipe is still on the sprue.

Top left is the gas control cover and top right is the cover for the emergency alarm, both for the carriage end.

4 WHEEL BK3 brake arrangements.pdf

Edited November 18, 2020 by NBR906

[brossard]

Thanks for that clarification Ian.  I will make the corrections.

 

I made a start on the body.  First off I had a look at the ends:

 

 

 

The brake end is Drummond.  There is an overlay which went on with no problems.  I did get confused when the instructions called for three holes to be drilled for brake gear.  The alternate parts for the later Holmes coach do have holes so I assume that the earlier coach did not.

 

 

 

I applied the lower side overlays today paying particular attention to their orientation.  I think I got them right.

 

The instructions say to build the coach ends and sides before this but I think it is easier to build up the sides before assembly.

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[brossard]

As mentioned above I have made corrections to the underframe detail IAW the correct drawing:

 

 

I decided to start over so everything has been redone.  Main things are the springs which I laminated from Evergreen strip.  The other thing to note is additional trussing just under the inner yokes.  This permitted the correct location of the air reservoir.

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[brossard]

Yesterday I continued work on the body:

 

 

You can see the droplights are in now and one of them is dropped.  There are three alternate etches with the windows in different dropped positions.

 

Also the door vents are in.  These are lost wax castings.  I had to fettle the holes above the door to get them to fit.

 

The big job was getting the duckets done.  As you can imagine, these needed some careful tweaking to get them into the correct shape.  There is a gap at the bottom unfortunately.  I think I can fill that with putty.

 

 

 

Next task is to detail this end.

 

The underframe, in case you were wondering, is now black.  I need to touch up the paint.

 

The body is going together alarmingly quickly.  Anyone with tips on how to do a decent interior?

 

John

Edited July 20, 2023 by brossard

[brossard]

I paused the build for a few days in order to get some advice from the kit designer, Ian .

 

I had trouble getting the body to fit the chassis.  Ian provided excellent advice and I was able to do some fettling to get things right:

 

 

You'll see that the body is pretty much done.  I added commode handles, alarm gear and partitions yesterday.

 

 

 

Ian did advise that the end screw holes should be elongated towards the buffer beam by about 1mm in order for everything to line up.

 

Note the manual brake gear.

 

Quite happy about this.

 

John

[brossard]

The body is now complete and I started the interior:

 

 

This is the first layer of 0.5mm plastic sheet.  Holes have been made for the protrusions.  This will allow the second, detailed layer to lie flat.

 

 

A small detail that Ian provided info for is the end lamp brackets.  I made them by drilling scrap brass and inserting wire.  Holes were drilled in the body, wire bent and soldered in.

 

John

[Adrian Stevenson]

Nice work as always John.

[georgeT]

Really love the detail you add to your wagons John, excellent, l will have to get some wagon kits soon..

[David Bell]

This is really good work and has prompted me to order a pre grouping wagon kit to make. Since it is a project on its own it can be in any scale and I have gone for something different. A gauge 3 kit of a NBR open wagon from Williams Models.

 

It won't be to your standard but I am looking forward to it.

Keep up the great work

Cheers

David 

[brossard]

It makes me happy to know that someone is inspired by what I have done.  That is really the main reason I post these things.

 

Relentless research helps me to go the extra lengths of detail.

 

Good luck with your wagon.  I have built/refurbished several Parkside NBR Jubilee wagons.

 

John

 

[brossard]

The 3rd brake body is in the paint shop and I'm slowly progressing the interior parts.

 

So, I though I would make a start on the second carriage kit, 6 wheeled Luggage Composite.

 

Here's where I am after today's session:

 

 

Possibly an oversight in the instructions but the nuts should be soldered to the flanges before assembling the body.  I started the nuts on the screws and then painted oil onto the threads.  The nut was tightened and solder applied, this worked great. 6 out of 6.    Yes, I have tried toothpick method but I'm not crazy about it.

 

Similarly, the lower hinges and luggage compartment should be soldered in prior to joining the sides and ends.  Sigh.

 

John

[brossard]

Yesterday I applied the side panels.  Today I have installed the grab irons:

 

 

To get the handle length the same for all 10, I first messed about getting the first one to work.  Then I drilled holes in a 1mm thick piece of plastic card and cut through one of them.  This made bending the other nine handles very easy.  To get the commode shape, the handle was placed in pliers about 1mm from the edge and the legs bent down.  This did take a bit of trial and error.

 

John

 

[brossard]

I have taken the body as far as I can for now:

 

 

Steps and hand rails done.  Lamp brackets added to the side.

 

 

The interesting end with alarm gear and gas control rod.  The gas control box is middle right.

 

I have left one or two things off until later.  These are the plumbing for the gas and the tee handles which will go on after paint.

 

John