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Heljan Class 31 - Take it or leave it


Hull Paragon
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I don’t know about anyone else, but I am getting tired of being treated as a cash cow by model rail businesses that care little for customer service. A considerable number of dealers and suppliers that I deal with have let me down quite badly in recent times but there is no regulation in our hobby and when faced with a ‘take it or leave it’ option, there is little that can be done. A current case in point is Heljan. Yes, Heljan: they of the ‘there is nothing wrong with the gearing on our locomotives’ company even though loco after loco failed. And how long did it take for that failure to be addressed by Heljan?

 

I recently took delivery of a new Heljan Class 31 7mm locomotive. When I opened it up I found that the fixings for transport had failed. This was not in itself a massive issue as there was no damage done but as I removed the loco from the box, a buffer fell out. A pin securing the buffer head and spring had fallen out because it didn’t fit properly. (Who knows why it is a pin and not a screw?). I wrote to Heljan saying that I would have to make a new pin as the existing one was of no use. I had had an interesting email from Kim Nannestad who I understand is the company owner. (Not verified). He thanked me for telling Heljan and congratulated me on finding a solution.

 

Sorry to hear about your issue, but also at the same time glad that you solved it easily. (Smiley face icon)

 

We will make a note of this for future productions.

 

Med venlig hilsen

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Best regards,

 

 

   Kim Nannestad

     +45 63 89 14 71

     +45 40 13 11 89

      www.Heljan.dk

 

He didn’t offer replacement parts or seem particularly bothered. However, I let that pass.

 

It is my intention to fit a DCC decoder and speaker in my new loco but, being a man who makes lots of slip-ups, I like to be sure that I am not going to make any potentially expensive mistakes. The ‘instructions’ which come with the model are of no use to anyone. The DCC element is limited to one line: ‘Decoder wiring diagrams should be supplied with your choice of decoder or may be found on the relevant Manufacturers site.’  So I wrote to Mr Nannestad  and asked for some wiring diagrams and any instructions they might have. Here is Mr Nannestad’s response.

 

Dear Sir

 

Please follow the instructions which were supplied with the model.

 

Med venlig hilsen

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Best regards,

 

 

   Kim Nannestad

     +45 63 89 14 71

     +45 40 13 11 89

      www.Heljan.dk

 

 

I was beginning to get a feel for Heljan’s after sales policy. Having lost what little patience I had when I started out, I wrote to Mr Nannestad and told him that I had spent nearly £500 on his product and the only way to get any information on how to identify the cabling inside his locomotive was to hope someone else had done it and posted the information online. I attached an example of a Class 33 being DCC’d from a MIGO post. I said something to the effect that it wasn’t really acceptable for consumers like me to have to rely on someone’s generosity in sharing their installation experience.

 

Mr Nannestad did not reply to this mail.

 

Now, it may be extremely simple to install a Loksound XL decoder and speaker in the Class 31 and some of you might tell me exactly that. But despite my experience, I get cautious when opening a new loco up and as far as I am concerned, I don’t think it is unreasonable for the manufacturer to give me something as simple as a circuit diagram to assist me. After all, I have spent my money on their product and there is always a possibility that I might do so again. (Well there was!).

 

It is not good enough that model rail suppliers take the money and then shrug their shoulders when things go wrong or assistance is needed. All I want is to be sure I get things right and a circuit diagram/wiring diagram is all I need. Is that too much to ask?

 

I offered the article to Mr Nannestad for his comments before I posted it here. This was his response which I think translates to 'Take it or leave it!':

 

Dear Sir

 

If you are unhappy with the product return it to where you bought it from for a refund. If you wish spares then please follow the instructions provided with the locomotive.

 

Med venlig hilsen

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Best regards,

   Kim Nannestad

     +45 63 89 14 71

     +45 40 13 11 89

      www.Heljan.dk

 

(Anyway, why should I need spares for a brand new straight out of the box locomotive?)

 

So I am left with a dilemma......I really want this loco...I've waited months for it. If I build my own it will take months and I may not survive that long! However, I am strongly inclined to send it back. No-one who is this blase should make any money at all from me.

 

I am sure there will be lots of views (positive and negative) so it would be useful to see what the general opinion is.

 

Ray

Edited by Hull Paragon
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Ray

 

You do make some good valid points and I fully understand your frustration, especially when you make the initial purchase with £500 of your hard earnt cash and then another £150+ on a sound chip.....

 

The models themselves are very good, like you, as soon as I get one I have found that you have to get the glue out to repair all the bits that have fallen off as these just seem to be push fit at assembly in China. The after sales / customer service is something that I feel really falls short for such a large company and sadly I don't see this improving in the foreseeable future unless another company starts producing RTR locos on the same scale as Heljan.  As for the wiring, I don't thing any two locos had the same wiring colours which has always puzzled me.

 

The responses that you have received from the main man himself is not really helpful but to say "If you are unhappy with the product return it for a refund" actually speaks volumes about the company and management structure.... clearly they don't give a damn as long as they have someone's hard earnt money. Have you thought about dropping a line to the UK's Heljan senior representative ( his name escapes me) to see if he can assist?

 

Good Luck

 

Jim

 

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Dear Hull Paragon

I heartily do agree with you Heljan's attitude is not the best. I have spoken with Kim face to face and by email and he does not demonstrate any empathy with his customers.  Yes, he is the CEO of Heljan.  All I can suggest is that you either find someone to do the install as a favour, perhaps at your local club  or pay someone to do it for you. It is not difficult but experience makes it easier to achieve a good result.

 

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I expect Ben Jones will want to step in and make things right with you as soon as he reads this?:help:

 

That’s what I’d expect him to do anyway. He’s the only person within Heljan worth a carrot when it comes to customer service as far as I can see. 
 

In terms of damaged locos I’ve never had a problem...but only because I make a 120 mile round trip to pick them up in person from Antics. :rolleyes:

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Ben

 

Could you clarify how the gears problem was resolved 12-15 years ago?

 

It seems odd to me that a loco as significantly & heavily built as Heljan diesels are is thought to be beyond repair after such a relatively short period.

 

My colleague is currently spending upwards of £100 to repair each of his several locomotives that may have been built 12+ years ago but have only recently started to show the gear problems.

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Ben,

 

You have a tricky job and I'm sure we appreciate your individual efforts, particularly as in the case of the gears, for example, you were nothing to do with Heljan back then.

 

Two gears on my barely used 33 failed recently and there are none in stock. Yes its an old loco and only a few early types but a lot of people have them. To be totally honest Heljan have only got themselves to blame for the flack they get on this given, not withstanding the difficulty of production slots and batch production, doing sufficient replacement gears at some point in that 12-15 year window would have saved an awful lot of ill feeling.

 

I do think this is an entirely different issue to some of the things that get raised around shape and details etc where I have far less sympathy as no one forces anyone to buy something that doesn't look right. Equally I agree that there are 3rd party options for sound fitting and the like. 

 

We cannot reasonably be expected to predict and fix a design fault in the mechanism though. 

 

Ian

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26 minutes ago, Ray H said:

Ben

 

Could you clarify how the gears problem was resolved 12-15 years ago?

 

It seems odd to me that a loco as significantly & heavily built as Heljan diesels are is thought to be beyond repair after such a relatively short period.

 

My colleague is currently spending upwards of £100 to repair each of his several locomotives that may have been built 12+ years ago but have only recently started to show the gear problems.

Hi Ray,

My post doesn’t say the problem was resolved 12-15 years ago. What I said was the the issue was limited to models produced at that time and has not been an issue on anything produced since. 
Without seeing the models in question I can’t pass an opinion but it’s not unusual for modellers (me included) to have locos stored away for years before they are used. The problem can take some time to surface if models are only sporadically used. 
The original issue was caused by gears being fitted onto axles that were very slightly too large, introducing stress into the plastic part and causing some to fail. We have supplied thousands of replacement gears FOC, allowing customers to repair their models if they fail. 
More gears are on order from the factory and should be in stock at Gaugemaster soon. 
 

Hope this helps 

 

Ben
 

 

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Thanks Ben for your input on the matter of gears, I have had to replace the gears on 2 x Class 47's, Class 26 and recently Class 33. The gears for the Class 47 were purchased from Howes, when they stocked them but I weren't  offered them FOC despite explaining the failure. As for the other models I have had to go to a third party to source new brass gears at a hefty cost to myself in order to keep these locos becoming expensive door stops.

 

Does Heljan have any plans to re-run the gears and get them out to the stockists?

 

Jim

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44 minutes ago, jcarta said:

Thanks Ben for your input on the matter of gears, I have had to replace the gears on 2 x Class 47's, Class 26 and recently Class 33. The gears for the Class 47 were purchased from Howes, when they stocked them but I weren't  offered them FOC despite explaining the failure. As for the other models I have had to go to a third party to source new brass gears at a hefty cost to myself in order to keep these locos becoming expensive door stops.

 

Does Heljan have any plans to re-run the gears and get them out to the stockists?

 

Jim

Another new batch of gears is on order with the factory. I don’t have an ETA, but I hope they will be here sooner rather than later. 
 

Hope this helps

 

Ben

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Ben

While we’re on the (unfortunate) subject of Heljan quality issues, I’ll just put the boot in once more!:D

 

My centre headcode Class 20 (about 18 months old) had been recently shorting out my entire layout for reasons unknown. It had developed a habit of dragging both axles at one end and therefore refused to run with my other 20 as a pairing.

 

I finally got forensic with it last week and removed each motor in turn to see if anything improved. One motor was clearly a smoother, faster and quieter performer when hooked up to a square 9v ‘smoke alarm’ battery, but just to ‘seal the deal’, I selected address 00 on the DCC throttle and connected the sickly motor to each running rail with its own two wires. It immediately shorted the layout so I had my answer.

 

I believe these motors are sealed for life in the factory therefore no fix can be applied, so I’m now running the loco with just one motor. Not a huge issue especially when running as a pair, but not the point either! I haven’t looked yet to see if Gaugemaster have spare motors  (I think they’re about £12?) but even though I’ve invalidated any possible warranty by doing the above, I’d suggest that a replacement motor would be a reasonable request given the loco’s age? 
 

Any thoughts or comments to share?

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28 minutes ago, Airport2010 said:

Ben

While we’re on the (unfortunate) subject of Heljan quality issues, I’ll just put the boot in once more!:D

 

My centre headcode Class 20 (about 18 months old) had been recently shorting out my entire layout for reasons unknown. It had developed a habit of dragging both axles at one end and therefore refused to run with my other 20 as a pairing.

 

I finally got forensic with it last week and removed each motor in turn to see if anything improved. One motor was clearly a smoother, faster and quieter performer when hooked up to a square 9v ‘smoke alarm’ battery, but just to ‘seal the deal’, I selected address 00 on the DCC throttle and connected the sickly motor to each running rail with its own two wires. It immediately shorted the layout so I had my answer.

 

I believe these motors are sealed for life in the factory therefore no fix can be applied, so I’m now running the loco with just one motor. Not a huge issue especially when running as a pair, but not the point either! I haven’t looked yet to see if Gaugemaster have spare motors  (I think they’re about £12?) but even though I’ve invalidated any possible warranty by doing the above, I’d suggest that a replacement motor would be a reasonable request given the loco’s age? 
 

Any thoughts or comments to share?

Sorry to read you’ve had problems with your 20. Sadly such things do happen occasionally and we are told to expect a failure rate of about 1% in motors. However that would usually manifest itself pretty quickly in the QC stage or immediately after purchase. Seems strange that it should begin behaving like this after 18 months though (unfortunately outside the warranty period) but possibly something inside has failed and there’s no way to pick that up at the QC stage if it is running as expected. 

As far as I’m aware, GM doesn’t have any spare motors yet, so my suggestion would be to try Olivia’s in Sheffield, who do have suitable replacement motors available for Heljan locos.  

 

Ben 

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11 minutes ago, Airport2010 said:

I’ll just put the boot in once more!

 

I'm sure you think this is hilarious, but bearing in mind the deliberatly inflammatory title of this topic, I don't. Keep it civil or the thread gets locked. 

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Its always interesting to see someones self importance inflate to the level of being on par with the CEO, but then become all offended when the cavalry isn't sent over the hill offering golden palm leaves but get a polite brush off.

 

The CEOs job is to sell the company.

Sales.. sells the product.

Customer care deals with the faults.


You may not like being at the bottom of the stack, but they will solve your query faster than those at the top.. if they dont, going up one step at a time still usually works better, as if you shoot at the ceiling chances are you’ll miss and no one below knows what your on about. All it does is rub everyone up the wrong way and ensure your noted for all the wrong reasons in future.

 

if you really want a CEOs attention, stop buying the product and start buying shares. Once you've bought enough he’ll do whatever you want.
 

 

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Any CEO is well advised to maintain a good understanding of their customer’s wishes and deal with concerns they may have.   The CEO of Heljan regularly attends shows and generally makes himself available to talk to customers, so it seems he fully understands.

Norman

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On 13/11/2020 at 16:59, 61661 said:

Dear Ray,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention (and thanks to Phil Parker for making me aware of the thread). Firstly, let me assure you that we do not take our customers for granted. We value your loyal support and constructive feedback, both positive and negative, especially where it allows us to improve our products/service. 

There are several points raised here, so allow me to deal with each in turn.

1) Gears: this issue was limited to certain early O gauge locos produced 12-15 years ago and was acknowledged and resolved many years ago. No recent models have suffered from this issue. 

2) Class 31 plinth fixings: We were very disappointed when damaged 31s started to arrive with customers as they passed our QC checks in China and Denmark. The issue only became apparent when they were shipped individually and subject to violent shocks in the post. Unfortunately we were let down by our factory on this as the plinth was not what we approved. Although it is no help for the most recent batch, we have pushed the factory to devise a more satisfactory and robust solution for future models, including the refurbished 31s due next year. We are confident that this will overcome the issue and ensure that models arrive intact. 

3) Internal wiring on older models: Older O gauge models including the Class 31 were developed before DCC and sound took off to the extent we see now. Therefore the internal wiring is not as DCC Friendly as more recent models. This is being addressed on new models, which will have chassis with plug-and-play decoder interfaces. Personally, if I was not confident of wiring in a decoder/speaker myself, I would take advantage of the various people out there who fit them on a professional basis. It is worth the money to get it right. 

Given the cost of redesigning and retooling chassis to provide a DCC Ready interface, and the large number of models involved, the old style chassis are likely to be with us for some time yet. Which leads me on to...

4) Instruction sheets: No argument from me that the old i-sheets were inadequate and we are currently in the process of rewriting and redesigning them as we work our way through the range. The 31 rerun predates this process, but you will start to see more comprehensive instructions from now on. This takes some time to filter through, but it is happening as a direct response to customer feedback. 

5) Customer service: Firstly, it's important to challenge the notion that Heljan is a large company. Including myself, there are just five full-time employees - four in Denmark and me in the UK. We are not blessed with the huge teams that other manufacturers enjoy. With regard to email responses, cultural differences may explain their brevity, as well as the fact that Kim is not writing in his native language. However, I hope that this post may go some way to clarifying the situation, and to reassure you that we are listening to feedback and making significant changes to our products as we speak. 

 

Kindest Regards

 

Ben 

 

Ben

 

First of all Ben, I did not know that you represented Heljan in the UK. If I had, I would certainly have addressed my issues to you.

 

Many thanks for your in depth response. I can understand that tooling etc can be a difficult thing to change and quite honestly, I knew that the loco could not be made DCC ready when I ordered it. However, a wiring diagram/circuit diagram can't be that difficult to source can it?

 

I am 'sure' that I can install the decoder....I have seen others do it (online) and I have done other locos which I have built. I have gleaned information from a variety of sources: information that could easily have been given to me by Heljan. For example, I understand that the LED resistors are not part of the main PCB. I also know that if I am not careful, I could damage the fan mechanisim if I rip the lid off too quickly.

 

I am not asking Heljan for step by step instructions.....just the sort of helpful information that can ease my task.

 

The buffer problem is slightly different. Luckily I recovered the spigot and spring that had loosened and fallen out. I was able to reassemble but because the spigot was loose, it had to be pressed fully home to fully engage the buffer head. This resulted in a very short buffer stem......hence my comment that I would have to turn a new, (longer) one. I suppose I could go back to Heljan and get a replacement but I don't know how long that will take and I will have to go through the rigmarole of doing it! I could glue it but the tolerance would probably mean that the spring would be glued in and the buffer functionality would be lost. However, and perhaps more important, I do not know if the three other buffers will do the same thing....possibly somewhere where the components willl be lost forever.....so my confidence is a bit low as far as that is concerned!  It's probably a silly question but why are the buffers not secured by nuts? A drop of glue can lock them and they stay put!

 

Thanks again

 

Ray

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On 13/11/2020 at 20:15, Phil Parker said:

 

I'm sure you think this is hilarious, but bearing in mind the deliberatly inflammatory title of this topic, I don't. Keep it civil or the thread gets locked. 

Phil

 

I can assure you that the title was not meant to be inflammatory at all. I thought long and hard for a title which I thought would attract relevant members and to relate my (poor) experience specifically with Heljan. My core theme for this post is/was poor customer service in the hobby of which this (for me) is just one issue of many and is current. In the end I chose a title to reflect that and the final comment made by Kim Nannestad reproduced above.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

Edited by Hull Paragon
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On 13/11/2020 at 22:26, adb968008 said:

Its always interesting to see someones self importance inflate to the level of being on par with the CEO, but then become all offended when the cavalry isn't sent over the hill offering golden palm leaves but get a polite brush off.

 

The CEOs job is to sell the company.

Sales.. sells the product.

Customer care deals with the faults.


You may not like being at the bottom of the stack, but they will solve your query faster than those at the top.. if they dont, going up one step at a time still usually works better, as if you shoot at the ceiling chances are you’ll miss and no one below knows what your on about. All it does is rub everyone up the wrong way and ensure your noted for all the wrong reasons in future.

 

if you really want a CEOs attention, stop buying the product and start buying shares. Once you've bought enough he’ll do whatever you want.
 

 

I'm not sure what you are assuming here. In the first instance the supplier of my model suggested I contact Kim Nannestad. In the second, I had no idea that he was the CEO. As it turns out (see the posts above) Heljan is hardly ICI when it comes to management structures.

 

Perhaps I should just buy the company and become the CEO myself. Then you could write to me and I would tell someone to fix your problem.

 

Anyway, I am not averse to writing to the top person. I have solved many issues that way because normally, when there is an issue that isn't being resolved at the bottom, when the person at the top tells them to sort it out, they do!!!

Edited by Hull Paragon
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5 minutes ago, Hull Paragon said:

Anyway, I am not averse to writing to the top person. I have solved many issues that way because normally, when there is an issue that isn't being resolved at the bottom, when the person at the top tells them to sort it out, they do!!!

 

I couldn't agree more - I initially try the 'correct' department, but if that doesn't work I send an e-mail to the CEO; (finding his / her details is dead easy, via the internet).

 

I head the e-mail "For the personal attention of ****************, CEO, ************ Ltd"; there is not a PA in existence who would dare not give the CEO at least a sight of the missive!

 

Invariably, I get a somewhat flustered PA calling me, explaining that ************* doesn't personally deal with such matters, but assuring me that he / she has given instructions for the matter to be resolved promptly.

 

Also invariably, it is!

 

The last time that this was effective was an e-mail to the Director of the Land Registry - a notoriously 'no-can-do' authority.

 

John Isherwood.

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Like most things its a question of balance but the odd direct approach when needed does get results.

 

The problem with forums is the impersonal nature and relative lack of context so often the replies you get have as much to do with the 20 previous posts someone has read that have caused them to form a stance on a particular issue. Additionally anything resembling a rant tends to provoke a reaction - which in a way is a good thing as it probably helps everyone to keep some perspective.

 

I posted an very innocuous comment about something the other day and was rewarded with someone pontificating at length about a number of things most of which went completely over my head as they didn't relate to me in the slightest. If it made him happy then I guess no harm done! 

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43 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Like most things its a question of balance but the odd direct approach when needed does get results.

 

The problem with forums is the impersonal nature and relative lack of context so often the replies you get have as much to do with the 20 previous posts someone has read that have caused them to form a stance on a particular issue. Additionally anything resembling a rant tends to provoke a reaction - which in a way is a good thing as it probably helps everyone to keep some perspective.

 

I posted an very innocuous comment about something the other day and was rewarded with someone pontificating at length about a number of things most of which went completely over my head as they didn't relate to me in the slightest. If it made him happy then I guess no harm done! 

Thanks Hal

 

A not unreasonable post! Text lacks inflexion, stress, tone and expression. Without convoluted descriptions of nuances and humour etc,  people will read posts in a context that they assume and respond accordingly. I was always told that any misunderstanding is the fault of the communicator which I think is still a valid view so I will take the blame for that!

 

Ray

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On 13/11/2020 at 22:26, adb968008 said:

.... if you shoot at the ceiling chances are you’ll miss and no one below knows what your on about. All it does is rub everyone up the wrong way and ensure your noted for all the wrong reasons in future.

 

 


et voila..

 

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Invariably, I get a somewhat flustered PA calling me, explaining that ************* doesn't personally deal with such matters, but assuring me that he / she has given instructions for the matter to be resolved promptly.


does it make you happy ?
Thing is actions like that are, to use your word “invariable”... but they do log you. You go on to databases within the organisation, which includes subsidiaries, with rankings, AI algorithms.  Your “invariability“ will increase each time you try it again, and eventually it might come back and bite you...
 

I know one org that ranks its customers in their customer care process, and when it comes to renewals, may find they are not contacted to renew, or find services just terminated and / or special offers etc just aren’t available... there is a product feature out there specifically for it, it’s called “discourager”... it’s deliberately designed to reduce / frustrate your browsing experience on its users website etc with an aim to make you go away.

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4 hours ago, adb968008 said:


et voila..

 


does it make you happy ?
Thing is actions like that are, to use your word “invariable”... but they do log you. You go on to databases within the organisation, which includes subsidiaries, with rankings, AI algorithms.  Your “invariability“ will increase each time you try it again, and eventually it might come back and bite you...
 

I know one org that ranks its customers in their customer care process, and when it comes to renewals, may find they are not contacted to renew, or find services just terminated and / or special offers etc just aren’t available... there is a product feature out there specifically for it, it’s called “discourager”... it’s deliberately designed to reduce / frustrate your browsing experience on its users website etc with an aim to make you go away.


And under GDPR legislation are now probably legally obliged to make it clear your details are being used to log how “awkward” you are. I wonder how many do?

 

As for reducing service, again of dubious legal status in today’s world. 

 

Roy

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6 minutes ago, adb968008 said:


your asked for consent on just about everything you sign up to.

and once your contract is complete there usually is no obligation to extend, by either party... they can ditch you, overtly or covertly.


Plus the UKs brief for its US trade deal, and has been agreed in the Japanese deal, gives up data presence in the UK, so once its logged overseas they can do anything unchecked, reality is you’ll only know if something goes pop... the government has clearly indicated it doesn’t care for data privacy in the long term.
 

its a false assumption that Much of GDPR is about “deleting” data, it’s about documenting what data you have and how it is used... if they say they will sell it online, and you agree.. then they can.

 

 

As the owner of a company I have been trained extensively on GDPR.

 

You must make it clear what you are using personal information for and you must only retain it for the time necessary to administer that business: " ...personal data may only be kept in a form that permits identification of the individual for no longer than is necessary for the purposes for which it was processed." So yes, it is about deleting data when that purpose has expired.


So, if somebody orders something without an account you must make it clear in the Ts & Cs that you sign up to: what data you are retaining, what you use that data for and for how long.

 

If somebody registers for an account on making that order (or without an order) the Ts & Cs that you sign up to will be different but again state: what data you are retaining, what you use that data for and for how long (on an account usually indefinitely or until asked to delete the account).

 

Yes, at any point a company can delete your account and personal data.


But, what cannot be done is "...ranks its customers in their customer care process, and when it comes to renewals, may find they are not contacted to renew, or find services just terminated and / or special offers etc just aren’t available.." without making is expressly clear that you will do that in the Ts & Cs you sign up to. That is the sort of condition that some people get great joy hunting down and raising in the press, I doubt many would be brave enough to do that now.

 

Further, if you were to be seen to do "there is a product feature out there specifically for it, it’s called “discourager”... it’s deliberately designed to reduce / frustrate your browsing experience on its users website etc with an aim to make you go away" on the account of somebody with a disability you will have one hell of a bill to pay in court if found out. We had PAS78 which has now evolved to become ISO 30071-1. Whilst not mandatory, it can and has been, used against companies in a court of law.

 

As for GDPR abroad, that is a legal minefield. By trading in Europe companies are legally bound to apply the European GDPR laws, hence Googles massive fine. For us that stands until 31/12 this year - beyond that who knows?

 

BA were fined £20M by the UK ICO - a body which is independent of the government - so whilst the government may not care, somebody does.

 

Anyhow - back to Heljan (who I have never had an issue with after buying a model).

 

Roy

 

 

 

 

 

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