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Proximity of Private Industry to Railway Premises?


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I'll be modelling a scrap merchant yard in the large gap in the foreground of this picture:

IMG_20201113_164534474.jpg.607042ffaed0223757d13ae09a2a0b5c.jpg

I'm just wondering how far I can (relatively prototypically) extend the yard into the railway's "territory" - I've stopped ballasting at the point that I assume to be acceptable....

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8 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

That's great, very similar to what I'm going for!  My merchant will have a siding serving it and, as you can see in the pic, I could encroach quite close to the platform ramps and the point work of the double slip - it's not a big deal, but I'd like to model it as reasonably believable....

Edited by Ray Von
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9 hours ago, Graham1960 said:

I would have thought that the earlier date your model is set the more likely the scrap merchant will need the railway being close to the yard. To bring in and out materials. Whereas the later yards like the above will simply use the old railway land for being cheap, perhaps due to contamination of the land or it not being commercial to put anything else on the land. With lorries doing the donkey work rather than trains.   

Cheers Graham, I will be playing a bit fast and loose with regards to realism - the era is late 1970's / early 1980's, so it's a "what if" kind of thing...

The yard will be served by the siding immediately to the right of the intended space, there'll be a converted engine shed serving as a workshop situated alongside it.  I'm pretty sure I can have the boundary of the scrap yard pretty close to the trackwork, my main concern is how close to the station and platform end should I go? 

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A commercial scrap yard would not be within the operational part of the railway and would likely have a private siding or use an adjoining  BR siding away from the running lines, (especially so with third rail).

However: Wagons etc could be scrapped on site on BR sidings by a scrap dealer with the scrap being removed by road, in earlier times just get on with it, more recently a safe working area would be needed with temporary fencing if needed.

 

Pete

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27 minutes ago, IWCR said:

A commercial scrap yard would not be within the operational part of the railway and would likely have a private siding or use an adjoining  BR siding away from the running lines, (especially so with third rail).

However: Wagons etc could be scrapped on site on BR sidings by a scrap dealer with the scrap being removed by road, in earlier times just get on with it, more recently a safe working area would be needed with temporary fencing if needed.

 

Pete

IMG_20201113_164534474.jpg.4fa4b340bc32d29f4a807e9c06af2977.jpgThe siding in question, fourth from the right, is as away from the operational part of the railway as I can get in the space available.  I imagine that the breaker's yard will have a road "off layout" to take away scrap metal. 

Edited by Ray Von
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I remember the large yard, not far east of Bristol TM, in the early 80s. Whilst I'm sure there was actually a decent amount of separation, it always felt as if the foot of the scrap pile ran into the cess of the main line. 

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Don't know if it's too late for you to alter but how about Sims metals at Beeston Nottingham as an example?

They have a single siding into their yard straight off the up slow line.

The normal method of operation is to split a train the loco pushing half a rake of wagons into the yard for loading leaving the other half on the up slow, then swapping them over at some point.

There is quite a high fence and the stacks of shredded scrap tower over the railway at times.

I'm not at work until Wednesday now but if you're interested I'll try to remember to get a couple of photos as I pass. Alternatively a Google search may turn up more information

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4 hours ago, great central said:

Don't know if it's too late for you to alter but how about Sims metals at Beeston Nottingham as an example?

They have a single siding into their yard straight off the up slow line.

The normal method of operation is to split a train the loco pushing half a rake of wagons into the yard for loading leaving the other half on the up slow, then swapping them over at some point.

There is quite a high fence and the stacks of shredded scrap tower over the railway at times.

I'm not at work until Wednesday now but if you're interested I'll try to remember to get a couple of photos as I pass. Alternatively a Google search may turn up more information

Thanks for that, some pics would be great! Just had a quick Google search, the images are a bit corporate but it looks a big old place!! 

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1 hour ago, doctor quinn said:

Sims used to have a Sentinel that they kept on a (very model-like) kick back from the main siding 

 

It might still be there, trees were growing around it last time I actually saw it!

Possibly the last time it was used was for shunting class 37s into the kickback for breaking up. 

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22 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

Thanks for that, some pics would be great! Just had a quick Google search, the images are a bit corporate but it looks a big old place!! 

It's not that big a site actually although one of the major, if not the major, site in the area for 'final' disposal of large quantities of scrap, as distinct from the much smaller local 'we buy your scrap' type of place.

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On 14/11/2020 at 12:14, Graham1960 said:

By that sort of date you could get very close, but there would be a decent fence for security purposes. Mostly for the scrap people purposes. Since by then there was a decent trade in stolen metals. British Rail would be more concerned with people getting on the trains without paying, due to open access. Though some smaller stations by then were unstaffed. Using Pay Train DMU services, which as the name suggest were like bus services with the guard as a conductor.

I would imagine the "fence" to be the type with white concrete blocks long ways slotted into concrete posts. With coiled barb wire on the top.

I think Scale Model Scenery might do the fence, don't know about the barb wire though.    

The fence helped limit the number of children eaten by the " yard monster"!

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Most mid/ late 19th century industry was railside located. 100 years on and the original industry was gone leaving suitable land for scrap yards etc. I spent hours salvaging classic car parts from a Castleford breaker located in a former lineside brick works. The rail connection had long gone even when the brick works were still producing, but this is your model so rule one applies.

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4 hours ago, great central said:

 

It might still be there, trees were growing around it last time I actually saw it!

Possibly the last time it was used was for shunting class 37s into the kickback for breaking up. 

Last I saw it was in an attractive livery of dark blue and mould 

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45 minutes ago, great central said:

Photos taken this morning, Sims metals at Beeston, Nottingham. Didn't come out too bad for a phone with the train doing around 60mph.

 

IMG_20201118_094022923.jpg.1043b68a476b67f8721d446ceb14ccc6.jpg

 

IMG_20201118_094025245.jpg.6fa695cde7a37ee096ef57bc32ba5491.jpg

 

IMG_20201118_094028382.jpg.06f1b6d3626e693505e6c6972efa1ae9.jpg

 

There's one more but it exceeds the data limit.

I don't think the shunter is there anymore either. Had a look on the way back.

Brilliant, many thanks! 

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