Bachmann 9F 2-10-0 An Appreciation.

[G-BOAF]

Just watched more of sams trains review. I find him very annoying. First how can he be a serious reviewer if he runs on carpet. If i were a manufacturer i would consider legal action where poorly running products are shown after being run in on a carpeted layout; all companies warn against carpet fibres damaging the mechanism.

 

Scond, if his model is performing badly, send it back to retailer for exchange. If the second one is bad you can review it, but to criticise straight off is unfair. Yes we shouldnt have to send models back but sometimes we do.

 

Third, the judery running is likely either due to wheel quartering issues, a split final drive gear, or as i discovered the valve guide on the cylinders not being seated correctly and therefore hitting the motion every revolution. Poor qc but very fixable either by replacing the cylinders or a bit of filing.

 

Either way if he didnt want to tinker he sould have returned for exchanve before the review. To say 'this is how it came out of the box and im reviewing it' is a bit childish i feel.

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

46 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

Just watched more of sams trains review. I find him very annoying. First how can he be a serious reviewer if he runs on carpet. If i were a manufacturer i would consider legal action where poorly running products are shown after being run in on a carpeted layout; all companies warn against carpet fibres damaging the mechanism.

 

Scond, if his model is performing badly, send it back to retailer for exchange. If the second one is bad you can review it, but to criticise straight off is unfair. Yes we shouldnt have to send models back but sometimes we do.

 

Third, the judery running is likely either due to wheel quartering issues, a split final drive gear, or as i discovered the valve guide on the cylinders not being seated correctly and therefore hitting the motion every revolution. Poor qc but very fixable either by replacing the cylinders or a bit of filing.

 

Either way if he didnt want to tinker he sould have returned for exchanve before the review. To say 'this is how it came out of the box and im reviewing it' is a bit childish i feel.

 

 

Reminded me mainly of the Father Ted episode with the visiting priest who finds everything ‘shoddy’. Sam seems a very frustrated young man. Maybe needs to get out more

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Reminded me mainly of the Father Ted episode with the visiting priest who finds everything ‘shoddy’. Sam seems a very frustrated young man. Maybe needs to get out more

I'm afraid I agree. I sense he doesn't get out. I think his youtube channel is his 'job'...

 

And further more, he reviews are not exactly unbiased at times. I think he did a review of the Hattons 66 and was full of praise (and yes it is a good model) but didn't highlight the issues of wheel wobble and the poor execution of the axle boxes. Probably because he has affiliate links with Hattons and gets money every time someone clicks on his link....!

Whever he has a link or other paid connection his reviews are always more positive....

 

 

[Hilux5972]

21 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Whether Sam is knowledgeable is open to debate as he quite frequently gets things wrong in his presentations.

For example, he described the recently released M/N East Asiatic Line as a old model with a new livery.

Technically he is correct. The Merchant Navy is 3-4 years old now. Not exactly a brand new model. 

[Black 5 Bear]

2 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Technically he is correct. The Merchant Navy is 3-4 years old now. Not exactly a brand new model. 

Fully appreciate that, but that is not what he implied on his YouTube review.

Many were under the impression that he thought the M/N was just another variation of the Airsmooth West Country/Battle of Britain class, which simply isn't the case.

With reference to the smaller, latter loco classes being "an old model" he would be correct, as these date from 2001/2002.

FYI, the AS M/N is a relatively new (2017) model with tooling to produce MK1,2 and 3 variants.

The original run back in 2017 was 4 locos in total.Two were in SR malachite livery and two in Hornby E/C Brunswick Green.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Black 5 Bear

[ikcdab]

23 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Just watched more of sams trains review. I find him very annoying. First how can he be a serious reviewer if he runs on carpet. If i were a manufacturer i would consider legal action where poorly running products are shown after being run in on a carpeted layout; all companies warn against carpet fibres damaging the mechanism.

 

Scond, if his model is performing badly, send it back to retailer for exchange. If the second one is bad you can review it, but to criticise straight off is unfair. Yes we shouldnt have to send models back but sometimes we do.

 

Third, the judery running is likely either due to wheel quartering issues, a split final drive gear, or as i discovered the valve guide on the cylinders not being seated correctly and therefore hitting the motion every revolution. Poor qc but very fixable either by replacing the cylinders or a bit of filing.

 

Either way if he didnt want to tinker he sould have returned for exchanve before the review. To say 'this is how it came out of the box and im reviewing it' is a bit childish i feel.

 

 

I think this is unfair. Sam's reviews are aimed at the average enthusiast who buys locos (at today's inflated prices) and reasonably expects then to run properly in a variety of situations. When you pay £130+ for a loco, you do expect it to run and not be cosmetically faulty. What we don't know is whether he sends things back after his initial test.

We really need to encourage me people into the hobby. They will be soon running away if their newly and expensively acquired engines do not come to to the mark. Sam is right to highlight when manufacturers do fall short.

He quite correctly praises good things and highlights faults. As for running on carpet, thats what a lot of people do.

Interestingly, his 9f review has had 28k views. I guess that's more than the circulation of any of the railway mags which (incidentally) have been criticized on another thread for not publishing "warts and all" reviews of stock.

I have no problem with Sam's trains, he does a good job for the average enthusiast.

[spamcan61]

23 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

 

 

Either way if he didnt want to tinker he sould have returned for exchanve before the review. To say 'this is how it came out of the box and im reviewing it' is a bit childish i feel.

 

 

That's how all reviews should be in my opinion, not reviewing after we've done the manufacturers' QC for them. I'm no big fan of Sam but I agree with his approach on this issue. Returning defective models to the retailer due to poor QC is a hassle I can do without, more so for those buying internationally.

[phil-b259]

47 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I think this is unfair. Sam's reviews are aimed at the average enthusiast ....

 

Thats being too generous

 

Any serious enthusiast is going to appreciate the differences between a original Merchant Navy and a rebuilt one and would appreciate that they cannot be the same model for example. They are also unlikely to want to run their locos on the carpet with a rather basic scenic section half way along.

 

The audience for Sams trains is basically (with no offence intended) simply people who like toy trains but lack any detailed knowledge - they may just have had a Hornby train set in their youth or be a youngster with enthusiasm but lacking the more detailed knowledge of railway modelling that comes with age. The overall presentation confirms that - you get the feel of an over excited child playing with their latest toy rather than a mere factual analysis. This is added to by some of his 'challenges' or reviews of cheap plastic tat like the 'train set in a tin'

 

As for the reviews themselves they are a curious mix of useful and nonsense / triva - he makes significant omissions / errors and has unrealistic expectations sometimes (particularly with smaller locos where the prototype would struggle with more than a couple of coaches). That said things like the ability to do a slow speed crawl or how realistic the gearing is are useful to know for some as it could impact on whether a particular layout setup is feasible to operate realistically. Again some of the features he extols like more die-cast components are in themselves things which many modellers would like to see more of as many modellers on here talk about adding lead to increase the weight of models.

 

The whole running on the carpet thing is also a bit of a 50:50 situation - no remotely serious modeller would do that, however its equally true that not all modellers are blessed with billiard straight and level track - neither can everyone avoid the use of setrack components. As such if a loco has 'issues' on Sams carpet circuit then its perhaps a useful warning sign that modellers who buy that loco might need to pay more attention to their track or tinker with say the pony truck springs to get reliable running.

 

As regards the whole 'this is what it runs like out of the box' - that is one aspect of his videos I cannot fault. You wouldn't buy a new TV, washing machine, fishing rod, power tool, etc and expect to have to do repairs to make it work properly! Modellers are very good at making excuses for shoddy QC - there is absolutely no justification for that whatever. A RTR model should run perfectly out of the box - end of.

Edited April 29, 2021 by phil-b259

[atom3624]

I quite enjoy Sam's Trains' videos - and have disagreed on occasion, for which he's accepted without issue.

 

I've not pulled my 92220ES apart, but are all Bachmann 9F's without bushes, or did they start fitting them from 'x' date onwards?

If mine doesn't have bushes, it's a fantastically smooth and powerful runner - no issues at all.

 

Al.

[bike2steam]

I like the Bachmann 9F but have resisted the massive temptation to buy one (or more) as I have 5 older Hornby versions already that are good enough for me. Three older China made converted to loco drive, and two re-chassised(?) with the later Railroad chassis, all look, and operate good enough for me ( the converted loco drive can easily pull 70 empty Bachmann 16 tonner minerals). I found the 'Sam's' video both annoying, and laughable - not run-in, and on a carpet with toy-train curves, and expecting top class performance - what a dick.

 

[No Decorum]

Sam is repeatedly criticised for running his trains on carpet. The carpet is hard and seems to be in a roof space, so is unlikely to pick up much fluff from pets or laundry. He has said himself that his models pick up hardly any fluff. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[ikcdab]

2 hours ago, bike2steam said:

I found the 'Sam's' video both annoying, and laughable - not run-in, and on a carpet with toy-train curves, and expecting top class performance - what a dick.

Umm...no.

Firstly he deliberately tests them pre and post running in. He is very clear about that.

Secondly, why shouldn't someone expect high quality performance from "toy-train" curves? It is, after all, what the models are designed for and it's what most people have. As for the carpet, it is of the hard, resilient variety and as the models are straight out of the box, they have no opportunity to pick up fluff.

I think his reviews are fair and honest and the 28k views shows that someone appreciates them....

 

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

Unfortunately, the only way to get even half-decent running on train set curves (however good the train might be), is to fix them down on a firm, flat surface.

 

It's highly unlikely that any consensus will emerge on here about Sam's Trains, but my own conclusion is that, whilst his reviews may be useful for new entrants to the hobby, they will hold little relevance for those who have pursued the hobby further.

 

John

 

  

Edited April 29, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[bike2steam]

OK I concede about the running-in, to be honest I 'rushed' thro' the video as I found some of it irritating, but running on carpets doesn't give track a perfectly flat running surface, it has a tendency to undulate. But some of his track looked like 'radius 1', which Bachmann advice against for larger locos, and a 10-coupled chassis will struggle as it obviously did. Still not convinced, to me it was directed at the 'toy-train' brigade.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by bike2steam

[Hilux5972]

23 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Any serious enthusiast is going to appreciate the differences between a original Merchant Navy and a rebuilt one and would appreciate that they cannot be the same model for example.

He clearly makes the distinction early on in the video that he knows the difference between the Merchant Navy and the West Country/Battle of Britain. 

[ikcdab]

19 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

his reviews may be useful for new entrants to the hobby,

I think that is the most important thing and why his reviews are worthwhile. We do not want new entrants to be discouraged.

[Dunsignalling]

36 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I think that is the most important thing and why his reviews are worthwhile. We do not want new entrants to be discouraged.

But equally, we don't want them to be led into bad practice that may wreck their locos, It has been pointed out that the specific carpet Sam runs his trains on is fairly fluff-free, but many of his viewers will fail to consider that other kinds can, and will, cause problems. It must also be said that pretty much any new carpet will shed fluff for the first few weeks/months they are down.

 

Old Tri-ang and HD locos had brass gears that would survive getting jammed up, but many modern plastic gears display fragility even when being used in accordance with the makers' instructions.

 

John

[w124bob]

Following on from my take on Evening Star on the S&D, I've added on second 9F to my roster(a third is awaiting weathering!). This one is of 92079, a long term resident of Bromsgrove and the Lickey(there's a thread for that somewhere on RMweb). I noticed from photographs 92079 carried Big Berth's headlight in the first few years, but at some point this was removed. Carrying on with the Lickey theme a apair of 94xx and the last Jinty are either done or on the bench.