RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2020 Some time ago i picked up a Mercian X class Peckett kit, i've done a couple of Mercian kits (a 50550 and a class 14 teddy bear) recently so while the manufacturers methodology is still reasonably fresh i thought i'd make a start on this. First up was a good look through all of the etches and components to see what was included. The kit enable builders to chose between the Metropolitan type cab or the Lord Salisbury type with the curved rear external bunker, which is the one i intend to go for. The instructions are only barely helpful so it's imperative you get a good idea where everything fits and which parts aren't required at all before starting. There are no tabs/slots on the footplate or cab so positioning of everything will also need care, no scale drawing or class info/history etc which is one of my kit annoyances so using the etched parts i've sketched up a very basic outline so that i can plan my gearbox/motor combo and also see what will need removing or filling to accommodate such. I've ordered a few additional parts from RT Models namely the buffers, dome and salter springs. There appears at the moment to only be missing etched parts for the buffer beams but time may show something else gone adrift too. Looking at the parts a couple of questions come to mind. 1.The roof on the Metropolitan is plain with just rain strips but the Lord Salisbury type has what must be a roof vent opening to one side? 2. The saddle tank has already been pre rolled unfortunately, i notice from the picture of Lord Salisbury that i'm using that the saddle tank has 3 internal sections separated by presumably internal stiffeners. This looks to be made from a 2/3 width rolled plate section next to the cab with the plate edge visible nearer to the chimney side. Some pecketts i've seen had a 1/3rd width plate on the center section with obvious edges either side. All of this was i'm assuming because of limitations with the size of rolls available in the workshop. Thickness of material and width of plate combined determine what can be rolled, ie thinner material means wider plates can be rolled, thicker material narrower width due to the capacity of the rolling machine. Did this vary from Peckett type to type or was it even variable within each class? Basic chassis and rods will be where i start. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) Hello Dave, I've done one of these - and the resulting thread is here: There's a good picture of Lord Salisbury here: What Peckett did with their larger locos can be seen in the picture above - they constructed saddle tanks of overlapping rings, the centre always on top. I ignored the rivets half-etched on the pre-rolled tank (WHY!?) which in any case are the wrong pitch and used Archer rivet transfers instead. One thing to watch for is the rather soft grade of brass used, but the kit is not too bad otherwise. Adam Edited November 15, 2020 by Adam 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 15, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, Adam said: What Peckett did with their larger locos can be seen in the picture above - they constructed saddle tanks of overlapping rings, the centre always on top. I ignored the rivets half-etched on the pre-rolled tank (WHY!?) which in any case are the wrong pitch and used Archer rivet transfers instead. One thing to watch for is the rather soft grade of brass used, but the kit is not too bad otherwise. Adam Thanks Adam, i've had a good look at your impressive build of the "Marshal". I'll be happy if it turns out likewise. The photo above is the one i've been using and in my eyes seems to show instead of a center ring as you describe it which i've seen on many pecketts but the 2/3 plated section, there doesn't appear to be a step in levels under the safety valve cover similar with the below photo (different cab), not sure of the copyright but if anyone requests it i'll remove it. Hence why i wondered if they may have been restricted in rolling widths at the loco works. The kit in this case as it's probably one of the later ones is all nickel silver, but yes likewise the rivet pitch is way out so i'll probably roll my own anyway. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Working in 7mm I set out a couple of years ago to build Ackton Hall #3. I could not get the rivet pattern right either and, thanks to the amazing generosity of Trevor at Mercian and a bit of scratch building I ended up with three X2s plus a " grounded" saddle tank amongst the clutter of Frydale yard. In the end the Ackton Hall tank was made prototypically form plates of shim brass over an undersized former. I have not been able to ascertain how AH#3 got that particular tank. Good luck with the project. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I’m sure that the effect you describe is a simple trick of the light as the loco is lit from the rear. First that’s because that’s Peckett’s normal approach (and that of most builders). Second, plates themselves aren’t all that thick and the fit of the valve casing is not tight enough to necessitate a step. I’m sure they were restricted in the size of rollers available to them and that’s the reason for the chosen mode of construction. Adam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 It will be equally to do with standard steel sheet sizes, stocking them and handling them. However, a little down on this page is an x class from the side showing the conventional 3 sheet tank construction https://www.martynbane.co.uk/peckett/locos.htm 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Adam said: I’m sure that the effect you describe is a simple trick of the light as the loco is lit from the rear. First that’s because that’s Peckett’s normal approach (and that of most builders). Second, plates themselves aren’t all that thick and the fit of the valve casing is not tight enough to necessitate a step. I’m sure they were restricted in the size of rollers available to them and that’s the reason for the chosen mode of construction. Adam AH#3 may be a one off but there are clearly nine plates in the construction. I know it returned to Pecketts during the war for a rebuild and guess that steel shortages led to the re use of part of the original tank or, sheets of sufficient size were temporarily unavailable and there was pressure for a quick turn round from the owners. Whatever the reason, it worked as this is the tank shown in the late photographs used by the preservation group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2020 Thanks guys. Adam as you say must be a trick of the light, photo's that have been digitised shouldn't really be fully trusted anyway in my view, you are relying on the scan to replicate and pick up everything, filtering and enhancing software can easily miss or remove "noise" in the picture which may be crucial. Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 On 15/11/2020 at 20:20, doilum said: Working in 7mm I set out a couple of years ago to build Ackton Hall #3. I could not get the rivet pattern right either and, thanks to the amazing generosity of Trevor at Mercian and a bit of scratch building I ended up with three X2s plus a " grounded" saddle tank amongst the clutter of Frydale yard. In the end the Ackton Hall tank was made prototypically form plates of shim brass over an undersized former. I have not been able to ascertain how AH#3 got that particular tank. Good luck with the project. It would be interesting to see your model of Ackton Hall No.3, I'm part of the group that are working towards restoring this loco at Foxfield. Hopefully we will be in a position to start serious fund raising for it soon. It will be getting a completely new tank and it may well be that it reverts to as built with just the three sections as we are planning on returning it back to as it would have been built, complete with curved wingplates on the smokebox front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2020 Made a start this evening with the chassis, rods and footplate. Spacer tabs fitted nicely into the respective slots on the chassis so no problems getting it all nice and square. I've re positioned the one spacer as it would have fouled the gearbox which will be rear axle driven. Rods laminated together from 3 sections, sweated together using drills positioned in a block to keep everything together. With the chassis basics done i offered the footplate up to it making sure the axle bearings lined up with the splashers, screwed the 2 together and soldered the locating nuts to the top. Valences soldered on spaced equidistant between front and rear. I'll cut and make up the buffer beams from sheet nickel silver once the buffers from RT arrive, i just want to check the depth of the housing beforehand. The coupling rods will need opening out for Gibson bushes later as they are 1.1mm diameter as etched. The 4 recesses in the top of the chassis had been etched for 2 pieces of pcb to be fitted across the tops upside down with wipers attached for pickups which i may well follow. I'll see once things have progressed further. Cab next. Dave 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 On 17/11/2020 at 11:35, avonside1563 said: It would be interesting to see your model of Ackton Hall No.3, I'm part of the group that are working towards restoring this loco at Foxfield. Hopefully we will be in a position to start serious fund raising for it soon. It will be getting a completely new tank and it may well be that it reverts to as built with just the three sections as we are planning on returning it back to as it would have been built, complete with curved wingplates on the smokebox front. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Not sure what happened but I lost the text! A few shots of AH#3 and sisters. AH#3 is in " as she finished up" condition although I had to make a small compromise in the lettering in order to use the transfers as supplied. When I get a free afternoon I will get my daughter to take some real photographs and perhaps include her Ackton Hall stablemates Airedale, Beatrice ?and S112. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2020 Worked on the cab this afternoon for a couple of hours. The beading and spectacles were soldered in before folding the sides up, i've just used a piece 1mm x 0.3 strip rather than wire as there was nothing supplied in the kit (i'll probably get the sanding disc in the mini drill to round the edges a little later). The spectacles were considerably undersize from the half etched recesses in the front and rear etches so i had to carefully flood the remaining recess with solder. I also added a strip of scrap etch to the top of the front and rear to give a little better area to glue the roof onto after painting. I've added a small extension to the back of the backhead casting as the cut out provided in the floor is quite considerable, this needs a bit more detailing so will be added to the cab with the reversing lever and brake standard etc. I'll probably make a start on the saddle tank next before i solder the cab to the footplate just to make sure everything fits ok. Dave 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rope runner Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) On 17/11/2020 at 21:26, k22009 said: I've heard of broad gauge before, but... Paul A. Edited November 19, 2020 by 1whitemoor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, 1whitemoor said: I've heard of broad gauge before, but... Paul A. Yeah need to order a few more washers for packing though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 20, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2020 So on with the saddle tank. You get an etched unit with front and rear fold up formers, a pre rolled saddle, boiler bottom and 2 front formers, one full height. A discussed above the rivet pattern has quite large spacings and the tank has been formed as though from one plate. So i've unrolled the tank and measured and cut out a new one from brass sheet, rolled it along with a thin overlapping center plate. I'll add transfer rivets from HGW Models after it's been primed. The fold up unit front and rear formers are quite a bit different to the the 2 loose ones to be attached to the front so after careful positioning the balance was cut off and filed smooth. Forming the bottom curves is always tricky, i used a 3/16 diameter bar to start it off and then just gently used flat pliers and hands to finish it off. I'll add the front and rear supports next. I need to check the gearbox and motor before i attach the boiler bottom as some may need trimming at the rear edge. I may de solder the nut on the footplate and attach a plate to the front support so i can make the saddle/boiler removable. It will be easier to paint for sure that way. Dave 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 11 hours ago, k22009 said: So on with the saddle tank. You get an etched unit with front and rear fold up formers, a pre rolled saddle, boiler bottom and 2 front formers, one full height. A discussed above the rivet pattern has quite large spacings and the tank has been formed as though from one plate. So i've unrolled the tank and measured and cut out a new one from brass sheet, rolled it along with a thin overlapping center plate. I'll add transfer rivets from HGW Models after it's been primed. The fold up unit front and rear formers are quite a bit different to the the 2 loose ones to be attached to the front so after careful positioning the balance was cut off and filed smooth. Forming the bottom curves is always tricky, i used a 3/16 diameter bar to start it off and then just gently used flat pliers and hands to finish it off. I'll add the front and rear supports next. I need to check the gearbox and motor before i attach the boiler bottom as some may need trimming at the rear edge. I may de solder the nut on the footplate and attach a plate to the front support so i can make the saddle/boiler removable. It will be easier to paint for sure that way. Dave Excellent work. This all seems a bit familiar. Be careful that the discarded tank doesn't grow into a second loco! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted November 24, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2020 On 21/11/2020 at 09:02, doilum said: Be careful that the discarded tank doesn't grow into a second loco! I've been rumbled, i have been making duplicates of some of the items and with the alternate cab etc it isn't a major scratchbuild exercise to hopefully make another. I started to look through all of the castings and especially those for the pipework etc Most are ok chimney is a little dodgy but i think it's workable, some duplicated so they're in the 2nd kit pile. But i have nothing like what i was expecting as far as injectors, chimney mounted lubricator and clacks. This is what i have and in my view they must be for a different kit so i'll have to make up something. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 The injector pipework is one of the defining Peckett ( and Manning Wardle) features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 For me the defining feature of Peckett is the shape of the tank when viewed from the front, most manufacturers going for concentric radii whereas Peckett's seemed to favour the outer tank wrapper being further from the inner wrapper at the top than down at the bottom. Presumably to give more water capacity without making tanks any wider. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted December 5, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2020 I made up something for the injectors and clacks from tube and brass rod which were duly added to the footplate. Cab has been soldered in place but the roof is loose for painting (just placed in position in the photos below). Sandboxes attached with the rodding from scrap etch in place. I've added some lead weight to the saddle tank which should give it a bit of traction. The loadhauler gearbox fits nicely with a small mitsumi motor attached, this needs wiring up and pickups adding. The saddle tank just placed on the footplate below, it does screw down nicely at the front, at the rear i have a piece of 2mm dia rod that locates into the cab front to hold it securely. Just a few detailing parts to add, chimney , safety valves, filler and smokebox door, then a bit of cleaning up. Dave 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Kevin Johnson Posted December 5, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2020 Dave the build of your X class peckett kits is looking very good. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 (edited) Very clean and square with no visible bodging. Well done! Edited December 5, 2020 by doilum Predictive text error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold k22009 Posted December 12, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2020 Added a few more of the detailing components and took the opportunity to use the leftover bits to make another X class. I needed to scratch build new frames, footplate, boiler/saddle tank formers, boiler bottom, saddle tank centre plates, sand boxes and pipework, cab floor and backhead assembly. It sounds a lot but as the first build is still fresh and easy to get access to measure these were fairly easily cobbled together. Chassis to finish off now with just a few detailing parts to add like the buffers, salter springs, smoke box door handles, handrails are cut ready but will be added after painting. Dave 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doilum Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Excellent work. I warned you about those spare parts!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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