Aston On Clun. A forgotten Great Western outpost.

[MrWolf]

That sounds considerably more ambitious than what I have in mind! 

I have a pair of FPL levers modelled in the box, so I should probably go all out to reproduce the rodding

I have to salute those who can build the true scale version, the apparently overscale Wills' version is fiddly enough for my shovel hands!

[Nick C]

2 hours ago, Donw said:

There is a chapter on FPLs. From the modellers point of view it saves having to have extra levers and even more so having to remember to operate them. I am planning to have the points and signals interlocked. I will be using electrickery as what with arthritis and a mountain of kits to build doing a mechanical locking frame is never going to happen whereas the coding for the arduino to control the interlocking is 90% done  I need to build a test rig to prove it and finalise on the system to link up to the devices.

 

Don

I think you're referring to making a frame to actually operate the layout - wheras @MrWolf is trying to reproduce the 4mm scale rodding - so in his case, the FPLs need to be there, because that's what the prototype he's modelling would have had.

 

From an operational point of view, yes, FPLs are totally unnecessary - none of our 4mm trains actually carry passengers after all, and making an actual working FPL in 4mm scale would be tricky to say the least - so if one were building a frame to control the layout, then I'd agree they should be left out - but the rodding and representation of the FPL on the model still ought to be there.

[Nick C]

10 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

I’ve got one rod operating the crossover and The FPL is at the other end of the layout because it’s only required when a train is approaching from a facing direction (I think)

Exactly that - the simple rule is that for any movement that is carrying passengers, all facing points must be locked - which means having an FPL.

 

If you ever have to have a facing passenger move over a point that doesn't have a lock, then you have to clip it (basically a great big g-clamp that clamps the switch to the stock rail to prevent it moving)

 

Easier on modern stuff of course, as point motors have the locks built-in...

[Regularity]

Point (sorry!) of clarity:

FPL refers to the facing point lock, and by convention to the lever and associated rodding for it.

When it is operated by the same lever as the points, it is an economic facing point lock, or EFPL.

 

There have been some postings which omitted the E, but where the discussion was about the economical FPL.

[Donw]

53 minutes ago, Nick C said:

I think you're referring to making a frame to actually operate the layout - wheras @MrWolf is trying to reproduce the 4mm scale rodding - so in his case, the FPLs need to be there, because that's what the prototype he's modelling would have had.

 

From an operational point of view, yes, FPLs are totally unnecessary - none of our 4mm trains actually carry passengers after all, and making an actual working FPL in 4mm scale would be tricky to say the least - so if one were building a frame to control the layout, then I'd agree they should be left out - but the rodding and representation of the FPL on the model still ought to be there.

 

You miss the point Nick if you assume there are economical FPLs you do not need extra rodding all you would need is a dummy FPL for cosmetic reasons.

If you are like me and wish to add to the experience with a lever frame (or representation of one) with interlocking so you have to pull the levers in the correct order then you can legitamately ignore FPL levers if they are economic.

For me it adds to the operating experience. Perhaps if you have never been in a box working the levers it is an unknown. Having done that, driven a few steam locos and worked the brake etc. in a guards van these things are very much part of the interest.

 

Don

[Regularity]

The other thing is that the locking in the frame would require an FPL to lock or release various other levers, which is done by an EFPL in a single movement, but where there are separate FPL levers, these need to be modelled even if you don’t go for full mechanical interlocking.

 

If using servos to operate signals, you can use switching driven from the lever frame to switch the feeds to the signal levers in or out, so that even if the signal lever is pulled, without the correct route set and locking made, the signal itself won’t move to the off position. This is useful, as it provides proof that the correct points have been pulled, etc

[MrWolf]

That does make sense and despite the minor status of the branch, as I had said early on in this thread, the Great Western would have junked the existing signalling and points system in favour of harmonious equipment of their own standards.

Your input is very useful and fills the gaps, and rounds out what I am reading in the 2mm society book.

 

This is my best pretending that I know what you are talking about face:

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by MrWolf
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[Regularity]

They might also have downgraded it to a ground frame released by a key on the staff.

[MrWolf]

I did consider that, but I was busy paring back the other features on the layout such as the goods facilities that I decided to leave the signalbox in. Also I fancied the challenge of cutting down the Wills' timber box to a 14'0" example.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

They might also have downgraded it to a ground frame released by a key on the staff.

True but boring.

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

True but boring.

 

Truth is dull. It's why fiction was invented.

[Donw]

9 hours ago, Regularity said:

The other thing is that the locking in the frame would require an FPL to lock or release various other levers, which is done by an EFPL in a single movement, but where there are separate FPL levers, these need to be modelled even if you don’t go for full mechanical interlocking.

 

If using servos to operate signals, you can use switching driven from the lever frame to switch the feeds to the signal levers in or out, so that even if the signal lever is pulled, without the correct route set and locking made, the signal itself won’t move to the off position. This is useful, as it provides proof that the correct points have been pulled, etc

 

The logic is fairly simple 

The levers/ switches each have a connection to a pin on the arduino these pins are regularly scanned.

When a lever changes position the logic first checks whether the lever is currently locked. If it is a red light comes on the frame and nothing will operate until the lever is restored.

If the lever is not locked the locking table is checked and any locks or relases that that lever applies to others are recorded. Obviously when a lever is being pulled or set back a lock can be applied or removed etc.

Whatever device is attached to that lever is then operated.

 

The connections to the turnout and signal devices can be direct wiring, via DCC decoders, via a layout ontrol bus such as CBUS or Ezybus. Servos need a driver circuit and this will normaly control the end points and speed of the servo.

For me electronics is much easier than setting up mechanical linkage. Any other than simple wire in tube seems to be troublesome. 

Anyway enough of cluttering up Wolfie's thread 

 

Don

[Nick C]

11 hours ago, Donw said:

 

You miss the point Nick if you assume there are economical FPLs you do not need extra rodding all you would need is a dummy FPL for cosmetic reasons.

If you are like me and wish to add to the experience with a lever frame (or representation of one) with interlocking so you have to pull the levers in the correct order then you can legitamately ignore FPL levers if they are economic.

But MeWolf is modelling the GW, and as StEnodoc has pointed out,they didn't tend to use economic FPLs.

11 hours ago, Donw said:

For me it adds to the operating experience. Perhaps if you have never been in a box working the levers it is an unknown. Having done that, driven a few steam locos and worked the brake etc. in a guards van these things are very much part of the interest.

I'm a volunteer signalman at my local heritage railway, so have spent many hours in a box working the levers!

[MrWolf]

It's been too nice a day to be mucking around with the layout too much, but even a few minutes gets a little bit more done.

The addition of a PW hut on @Graham T's layout reminded me that I hadn't masked off the area where my PW hut sits (Ancient Cooper Craft item where I was bet that I couldn't make the grindstone rotate - it does!) 

i put it in place, drew round it with a soft pencil, cut through with a knife and peeled off the layer of grass, PVA and acrylic paint.

The hut needs blending in now but at least it sits level and doesn't resemble a flying sheep! 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by MrWolf
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[MrWolf]

This is going to look daft until the glue dries and I can hoover up the unwanted grass.

 

 

image lost.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by MrWolf
Image missing

[Rowsley17D]

Somebody's been cutting silage and misdirected the conveyer.

[MrWolf]

19 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said:

Somebody's been cutting silage and misdirected the conveyer.

 

That'll be old Jethro who cuts the verges with his scythe.

 

Been known to mix a little crack in with his pipefull of St. Bruno....

 

[Regularity]

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Been known to mix a little crack in with his pipefull of St. Bruno....

Well ahead of his time, Old Jethro…

[MrWolf]

Had another few minutes spare and tidied up the area around the livestock yard, sanded down the rough edges, hoovered up the resulting white dust before Jethro gets hold of it....

Before a coat of brown acrylic, thinned to soak in ready for grass and a fence. The 150mm wide tapered extension piece that I have put in here has made a big difference.

 

 

 

Everything sat in position. Finishing off construction and painting of all three structures, plus the right amount of muck and weeds should do the job.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by MrWolf
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[Alister_G]

That's really coming on now Rob, you can begin to get a feel of the place, nice one.

 

Not sure about the big yellow and white water towers though...

 

Al.

[MrWolf]

Having looked at my photos, that cattle dock needs sorting, the primer coat of brick red is really starting to stick out. It's one thing that I have noticed about the layouts that grab my attention, they're all muted colours. Bright reds and greens always shout "train set" to my eyes.

[MrWolf]

 

 

Somewhere under the mess is progress. Had a spare few minutes earlier. 

The big yellow and white water towers have at least been removed!  

Edited August 23, 2022 by MrWolf
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[Graham T]

You should get someone else to cut your grass for you, they've made a right mess!  

[Tortuga]

Just jumping back to the point rodding; I can’t remember if you’d sorted a signal box diagram. I’ve already looked into the signalling and interlocking for my own layout and one thing that came up was that the order of the levers directly relates to the order that the rods exit the box.

 

Forgive me if I’m teaching anyone to suck eggs, but it’s one of those things that’s so obvious to those with the knowledge, but something that could easily catch a novice (like me) out - in a similar way to how hand thrown point levers and facing point locks work

[MrWolf]

I think that mad old Jethro fell off the edge of the layout.