Illegal mains plug?.....possibly lethal

[gordon s]

Thought I had seen it all, particularly with product from China, but this surely cannot be legal. I ordered one of these purely to test an old Lionel locomotive. I'm always wary of ordering from China, but the mains plug on this device surely can't be legal....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363109269512

 

The main plug is the smallest I have ever seen and cannot meet specs re finger access and spacing to the edge. There can't possibly be a fuse in the plug, so surely this must break every UK safety regulation on mains plugs. Is it legal to supply electrical goods in the UK with a plug that doesn't meet BS1363?

 

Need to check my facts, but reporting to both eBay and Trading Standards is certainly an option if they are illegal.

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

I had quite a long read of the regulations following an incident with a supplier of catering equipment (1 item with wrong plug, 1 item that had a 13A plug that should not have had one).

I would concur with you that it is illegal to supply such an item. But not much that Trading Standards can do if you have bought it from a Chinese supplier.

[Andy Hayter]

Trading standards will confirm that the plug is dangerous and therefore illegal.  They are also better placed than  Gordon to put pressure on Ebay.  Not that that should stop Gordon raising this and indeed claiming a full refund.

[gordon s]

....but it begs the question how it gets into the UK in the first place if it doesn't meet legal requirements. I'm sure it came from a  UK address who has stock here.

 

Out of interest I was thinking about EU plugs which have just two pins. OK, double insulated devices from an earth perspective, but they don't have a fuse fitted in the plug. Maybe they have internal fuses in the device.

[Andy Hayter]

EU plugs still have an earth and rely (in modern electrical installations) on earth leakage breakers at what is euphemistically called the fuse box (with no fuses). 

[JeremyC]

I believe that continental installations use radial circuits rather than ring mains and all the fusing is done at the distribution board. 

[Nigelcliffe]

2 minutes ago, gordon s said:

....but it begs the question how it gets into the UK in the first place if it doesn't meet legal requirements. I'm sure it came from a  UK address who has stock here.

 

 

There are no checks.   

If you want some confidence over standards, buy from a real UK business: one you could serve a solicitors letter on. 

 

Yes, correct action if its clearly below BS mains standards is to report to Trading Standards and to Ebay.    Ebay may de-list it.  Then it will re-appear on another seller's name.  

 

- Nigel

[Michael Hodgson]

21 minutes ago, gordon s said:

....but it begs the question how it gets into the UK in the first place if it doesn't meet legal requirements. I'm sure it came from a  UK address who has stock here.

 

It would have come in a shipping container.  HM Customs/ can't search more than the odd one and even then, they're more likely looking for drugs etc.  Trading Standards only look at things on their own patch.

 

Even if you buy something in the UK, you can't be sure it will be legal.  Ebay don't look at things that get advertised or do any quality control.  Even if you do complain, nothing much will be change - perhaps a listing might get taken down, but another one will soon pop up under another name.

[Joseph_Pestell]

33 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

EU plugs still have an earth and rely (in modern electrical installations) on earth leakage breakers at what is euphemistically called the fuse box (with no fuses). 

 

All plugs to modern standards have an earth pin (or socket). But a lot of electrical equipment only has two wires. So the earth is not doing much, unless and until you drive a nail/screw into the cable.

 

 

27 minutes ago, JeremyC said:

I believe that continental installations use radial circuits rather than ring mains and all the fusing is done at the distribution board. 

 

That is certainly the case in France. With a modern distribution board, with breakers on both live and neutral, it works well. But I would still rather have a fuse in the plug as well.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell

[rue_d_etropal]

It might be safer if they just fitted a European plug and an adapter. This is what I have seen with some train produced for European market but sold here. Computer equipment quite often has a Euro plug, encased in a British style casing, with fuse.

I think that there was at one time a belief that ring main systems were the way forward, but it is only here in Britain that they are used. French/Euro wiring can look more complex, but in some ways it is simpler. I find the way the Euro 3 pin plugs are designed more worrying, but it is hopefully not as dangerous as it looks.

At least we use same voltage as Europe, unlike in USA, which means it isn't just a simple replacement of a plug that is required for some gear.

[woodenhead]

If you look about a third way down this page, you will see something familiar

http://bs1363.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

 

As mentioned above, Ebay will close down a page and another one will just spring up elsewhere.

[andyman7]

It's all a far cry from the good old days when you bought an electrical item with a flex ending in some bare wires and you had to fit a plug yourself 

 

[kevinlms]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types#Counterfeits_and_non-standard_plugs

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, rue_d_etropal said:

It might be safer if they just fitted a European plug and an adapter. This is what I have seen with some train produced for European market but sold here. Computer equipment quite often has a Euro plug, encased in a British style casing, with fuse.

I think that there was at one time a belief that ring main systems were the way forward, but it is only here in Britain that they are used. French/Euro wiring can look more complex, but in some ways it is simpler. I find the way the Euro 3 pin plugs are designed more worrying, but it is hopefully not as dangerous as it looks.

At least we use same voltage as Europe, unlike in USA, which means it isn't just a simple replacement of a plug that is required for some gear.

 

My understanding is that the UK adopted the ring main system as a post WW2 copper saving system when the UK needed to export as much as possible to repair the finances following the years of conflict.

 

If you have a lot of outlets on a radial system then thats a lot of copper wiring you need, plus being a spur means a larger diameter cable in needed to carry the same current compared to a ring system.

 

The issue with the USA is not voltage - its phase!

 

Designing a power supply to work off 110V and 240V is childs play - as long as the input is always at 50Hz. on the other hand designing a power supply to cope with 110V at 50Hz and 110 at 60Hz is far more complex.

[gordon s]

Seems I'm not the first....On it's way back to the vendor once I've completed the on line requirements.

 

 

[mike morley]

Not long before lockdown Eon nagged me into letting them fit a smart meter.  It came with a separate little display powered by a plug that has no fuse!

[Crosland]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

Designing a power supply to work off 110V and 240V is childs play - as long as the input is always at 50Hz. on the other hand designing a power supply to cope with 110V at 50Hz and 110 at 60Hz is far more complex.

 

The first thing a modern power supply does is rectify the mains, so the frequency is not critical.

[Crosland]

2 hours ago, gordon s said:

....but it begs the question how it gets into the UK in the first place if it doesn't meet legal requirements. I'm sure it came from a  UK address who has stock here.

 

Not sure about the legality if you buy from an overseas supplier who holds stock in the UK. Otherwise, for individual purchases, you are the importer and you are responsible.

 

It's the same when a company imports equipment for resale. They are responsible for it meeting local regs, no matter how many bits of paper the supplier gives them.

[gordon s]

Read a bit more and a partially sleeved earth pin is illegal, so another fail....

 

I can't help but think of young kids with small fingers using such leads.

[phil-b259]

37 minutes ago, Crosland said:

 

The first thing a modern power supply does is rectify the mains, so the frequency is not critical.

 

Thus is true - but its only really in the past couple of decades where switch mode power supplies have become common.

 

In any case the importance of frequency is demonstrated by the way the National Grid stick rigidly to 50Hz - if it wasn't a big deal then it would be allowed to drift far more.

 

The limits for mains voltage are quite big - it can easily be allowed to drift down to 220V but if the frequency moves by more than 1Hz then stuff gets automatically cut to stabilise it.

 

It is important to note that the big power outage in the South East that left class 700 trains stranded all over the place actually occurred because the National grid automatically cut off areas to preserve the 50Hz mains frequency after a power plant went offline.

 

 

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Isn't a fuse on aa appliance connected to a MCB/RCD circuit redundant?

 

Mike.

 

 

[RFS]

Don't some appliances just require 2-wire connection and no earth, such as phone chargers etc. because they're fully insulated? These can have dummy earth pins and no fuse. This is my Samsung tablet charger, for example:

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by RFS

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

 

If you have a lot of outlets on a radial system then thats a lot of copper wiring you need, plus being a spur means a larger diameter cable in needed to carry the same current compared to a ring system.

 

 

ISTR the current recommended maximum for a radial cable is 5 sockets, so far less than used to be put on a UK ring main.

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 minutes ago, RFS said:

Don't some appliances just require 2-wire connection and no earth, such as phone chargers etc. because they're fully insulated? These can have dummy earth pins and no fuse. This is my Samsung tablet charger, for example:

 

 

 

Certainly commonplace. But I am not sure if they are fully compliant.

[RFS]

Just now, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Certainly commonplace. But I am not sure if they are fully compliant.

 

Well this is Samsung's and my BT Smart Hub also has a plastic earth pin, so they must be compliant.