RMweb Gold C126 Posted November 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2020 Having installed a Peco 3-way insulfrog point as the 'King' on my yard, my aged Mainline 03 stalls on it repeatedly, so I would like to replace it with a shunter with a flywheel-drive. Is the Hornby 08: https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/locomotives/diesel-electric-locomotives/br-0-6-0-class-08.html the only such OO scale shunter thus (suitable for a Southern Region layout), or does the Heljan 07 have a flywheel mechanism tucked into that little 'bonnet' as well? I assume there is no 03 model with a flywheel mechanism. All recommendations gratefully received. I might try and do a little tweaking on the point as well over the weekend and check all is level. Thank you for giving this your consideration, and for any advice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmacc Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 Have you tried the newer Bachmann drewrys? I have a relatively new Bachmann 04 and it’s leaps ahead even versus the older Bachmann 03 never mind the mainline one with or without flywheel. I know the 04 may not be SR but I’m sure a body swap would be possible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Fitting pickups transformed my Mainline 03. It started as an early Bachmann 04 which had the large worm / flywheel thingy and expired after about 2 years. The temporary Mainline chassis bought for a fiver, was abysmal and stalled repeatedly so I fitted pickups from the chassis to the wheel backs which transformed it, so much so that I never bothered with another chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) On 17/11/2020 at 19:42, ianmacc said: I know the 04 may not be SR but I’m sure a body swap would be possible. The southern had as many, in fact more I’m pretty sure, 04 as they did 03. The broad picture is that the eastern division got 04, the central division half and half, and the western 03, because of the dates at which they were “dieselised”, but it wasn’t quite as simple as that, because there were odd early locos on the western, and late locos on the eastern. Edited November 21, 2020 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted November 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2020 You could wire it to a match truck to give another 4 wheels picking up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmacc Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Nearholmer said: The southern had as many, in fact more I’m pretty sure, 04 as they did 03. The broad picture is that the eastern division got 04, the central division half and half, and the western 03, because of the dates at which they were “dieselised”, but it wasn’t quite as simple as that, because there were odd early locos on the western, and late locos on the eastern. Thanks. Any idea why the 04s were withdrawn so much sooner than the 03s? Braking systems I assume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) On the southern specifically, more a case that the need for shunting dramatically decreased, and it made more sense to keep solely the 350hp locos, plus a tiny few 204hp for Weymouth Quay and other O&S in the Bournemouth area. If you compare the number of shunting locos on the southern 1965 to 1975, you will see that the reduction was huge. The 07 were not far off white elephants. Edited November 21, 2020 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 As an alternative find out why the 03 stalls - is should be picking up current from all 6 wheels. If it is then its likely the infamous Peco lumpy frogs have struck the point - check it is level across the frogs and nearby rails and if not use appropriately located track pins to hold them level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted November 22, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2020 (edited) Thanks to you all for your information. I admit I had not heard of the 04 model; am I right in thinking there were up-dated flywheel models done of both the 03 and 04? I am finding the models I like were all made five years ago and have now sold out... I doubt my technical abilities to wire up a match-truck or fit added pick-ups, alas. Struggling yester-day with shakey hands trying to re-number a Heljan 73, I would rather find something 'straight out of the box' if possible. As to the cause, from what I can see it is the large number of "lumpy frogs" on the 3-way that appears to provide an opportunity to stall a small wheel-base loco. Pick-up on the 03 appears fine, as it is a split-chassis drawing from all six wheels. I put a little Electrolube on the axles' pick-up area to help, I hope. The point checks as being 'flat' with a metal straight-edge, but varies in 'level'. I have not pinned down any of my points, as I thought this 'was not done', relying on the track connecting them to maintain their position. Should I bite the bullet and try (gently!) tacking down this one? Edited November 22, 2020 by C126 Added topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsmb Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) @C126there is a silverfox 07 for sale on ebay, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bachmann-SILVER-FOX-MODELS-KIT-BUILT-BR-BLUE-RUSTON-CLASS-07-DIESEL-LOCO-07010/363128930837?hash=item548c2bc215:g:J4YAAOSwFDpfeH3p hope this helps i;ve bought off this seller a few times he is good. Edited November 23, 2020 by vikingsmb 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted November 24, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2020 Thanks for the E-Bay suggestion, @vikingsmb . Just one final silly question: do the 03/04 and 07 models have flywheel drives, or is it just the later Hornby 08? I will check for availability as well of the 04. Many thanks for your help. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 The Silver Fox 07 uses the Bachmann chassis. Not sure that flywheel chassis are necessarily the solution, my new style Bachmann 03s without a fly wheel run a lot more smoothly than the fly wheel ones ever did. As posted previously you need to find out why a loco with 6 wheel pick up is stalling in the first place. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted November 25, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2020 Thanks again to you all for giving this your attention and advice. I will get the Dividers and graph paper out at the weekend, and measure the rail lengths of the three 'routes' through the turn-out. If I construct a paper template of the wheel-base, I can see if/where it is encountering 'dead rails', and then follow this up. Will keep you posted. Best wishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 24/11/2020 at 12:32, C126 said: Thanks for the E-Bay suggestion, @vikingsmb . Just one final silly question: do the 03/04 and 07 models have flywheel drives, or is it just the later Hornby 08? I will check for availability as well of the 04. Many thanks for your help. Hi C126, Sorry but I have to respond to the message you refer to here, this is from gostude, one of the most notorious folk on eBay, I cannot believe anyone would recommend him! Surely, another seller could supply such a model cheaper or you could go for the Heljan version? I have quite a few searches saved on eBay and eventually, a model in my price range comes up, from a reputable seller too. Good luck, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted November 26, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2020 @Allegheny1600 Thanks for your advice. I admit funds are low at the moment, so I could not act on the recommendation for a few months yet anyway. Best wishes to you all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsmb Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 On 25/11/2020 at 17:09, Allegheny1600 said: Hi C126, Sorry but I have to respond to the message you refer to here, this is from gostude, one of the most notorious folk on eBay, I cannot believe anyone would recommend him! Surely, another seller could supply such a model cheaper or you could go for the Heljan version? I have quite a few searches saved on eBay and eventually, a model in my price range comes up, from a reputable seller too. Good luck, John. Fyi, I have never had a problem with gostude. how is he notorious? nothing wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 hours ago, vikingsmb said: Fyi, I have never had a problem with gostude. how is he notorious? nothing wrong. Prices are usually eye watering although I did get M7 from him at a reasonable price. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 12 hours ago, vikingsmb said: Fyi, I have never had a problem with gostude. how is he notorious? nothing wrong. As noted above, prices are usually in the high, over high or ridiculous category. Example, of the various class 07’s listed on eBay currently, there are at least 8 Heljan models listed at below his price for the much older Silver Fox models that are no doubt, equipped with lesser mechanisms. Just take a browse through the topic on eBay Madness and you’ll find numerous examples showing him to be a charlatan. Caveat Emptor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted March 18, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2021 Sorry to neglect this query for so long; events as always intervene. However, I spent a weekend with 'my nose pressed to the p-way', and found the 08's chassis appears to stall on two 'sweet spots' as indicated when turning both left and right: The direction of travel is indicated, the leading axle being red, the trailing green. The centre road causes no problems. I found one length of the point not being level, so this needs correcting (the 08 'rocked' in one place). Anyway, hope this is of interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 The Peco 3-way insulfrog point came out just in time for my layout (1982/3) and it was apparent that the two outer full-length rails were insufficient to keep the whole thing perfectly flat, so pinning down was necessary - in fact I drilled extra pinning holes in all of the layout's Peco pointwork to make sure they were as flat as possible. I also noticed the 'lumpy frogs' so after pinning them down I gently rubbed the frogs with some fine-grade wet n dry abrasive paper wrapped around a block of 2x1 wood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted March 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 18/03/2021 at 14:06, Neil Phillips said: The Peco 3-way insulfrog point came out just in time for my layout (1982/3) and it was apparent that the two outer full-length rails were insufficient to keep the whole thing perfectly flat, so pinning down was necessary - in fact I drilled extra pinning holes in all of the layout's Peco pointwork to make sure they were as flat as possible. I also noticed the 'lumpy frogs' so after pinning them down I gently rubbed the frogs with some fine-grade wet n dry abrasive paper wrapped around a block of 2x1 wood. Sorry not to have replied sooner - one day I will understand the 'notifcation settings' - but many thanks for the advice. I will take the plunge and try tacking down turnout 'sparingly' to try and get a wholly level rail throughout. The 'lumpy frogs' point is useful as well. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Might a stay alive solve the problems....... Keith 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted April 2, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2021 On 23/03/2021 at 18:32, KeithHC said: Might a stay alive solve the problems....... Keith Thanks for the suggestion, and apologies for the delay. Alas, my layout is old fashioned direct current. What I need is a 'Relco'(?)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 No. The relco only causes more problems than it solves. What you need is to ensure you have power of the correct polarity to all sections of the running rails and reliable pickups on your locos. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold C126 Posted April 2, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 2, 2021 Much obliged to you for this warning. I will take another look at the point and loco a.s.a.p. and keep you posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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