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I'll show you mine. Tram layouts of the past.


wagonbasher
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I found tonight some photos of a tram layout I was involved with in the early to mid 1980's

 

The layout was supported by the Stafford Railway Circle of which I was a very active member at this time.  I remember this period very well, I was a young committee member, the club was skint ( a very different club than today with its own clubroom and very significant show in the 'normal' annual exhibition circuit) and I was courting (showing my age) my future and still enduring wife Jane.

 

it didn't seem to matter that we ran Leeds and London trams together, or that the wolverhampton was standard gauge.  The layout featured overhead wires but the trolley poles remained flat on the roofes of the trams.

 

All Bec kits, OMG the speeds we ran them at, I cringe at the thought. Still great fun.

 

We had some guidance from a modern image modeller called Don Jones.  He modelled in his big shed and garden railway new street station and Rugeley power station with cooling towers the size of dustbins (old fashioned type).  He showed us how to model buildings with Stanley knives and 1/8 ply.  All very crude compared with the stuff I model today but  effective  for an overall scene which I guess we were trying to achieve.  

 

Eithervway that experience  of scratch building was the foundation stone of future layouts involving myself and other club members including new haden colliery and Black Country blues.

 

i will scan them and post them tomorrow. They come from a time when anything seemed possible.

 

Please show me yours,  what old photos do you have of your old tram layouts.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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As promised, the layout never had a name, it was just the stafford Railway Circles Tram Layout:

 

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I still see Dave around town, he has no interest in trams buses or railways, he did't then, but he did have a car.  This is the first part of the layout built, depot and power station and terminus. We were exhibiting at a bus rally in Hanley Clough street depot (now gone).

 

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A closer look at the depot, I would say this was 1987 Wolverhampton exhibition.  I still have the bus blind. I think it is the lower part of a two roller blind from either a Midland Red S22 or S23.

 

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Wolves again, the town scene had a lot of crazy tight bends.  The attentive operator is my wife Jane, putting up with my hobby then as she does now.

 

968648744_tramlayouttownscene2.JPG.600ab89a268bf28ba6451673518fb300.JPG

 

The town scene and Jane from the opposite angle.  Many of the buildings were based on ones in Stafford.  The track was just Peco flexi track with set points.

 

1712464922_tramlayoutloop.JPG.ad82c303286de76310d0053720d83c4a.JPG 

A younger me in a pre Stafford Railway Circle Exhibition picture in the Stafford Newsletter.  Newspaper photographers always wanted you to be in the scene, preferably doing something.  "Can you touch the tram  / train?", No. the whole point is that we don't touch them!!.   Anyway, this little street section linked the depot and the town.  It is interlaced track through the arch.  There were loose plastic cobbled inserts that fitted between the blades of the turnouts, not sure why that one is missing ?

 

I am sure I have more pictures somewhere, great times.

 

Andy

 

 

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8 hours ago, Red Devil said:

Some of my old layout Grime St

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 Thank you for joining in. Hopefully we can flush some others out.

 

I like the Leeds system, 

We ran some horsefields on the layout, I might still have them?  180 at Crich can still halt me in my tracks.  In about 1982.  I was visiting bus garages in Leeds spotting buses and in the back of the depot stood an old lorry.  I'm sure I took a photo (slides, that would take some finding) and later realised that the same vehicle was in a book about Leeds trams and it was the overhead access vehicle.  

 

I wish i had more time to wade through my old stuff.

 

Andy

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I hope this takes off. I have always liked tram layouts since operating the TLRS 1:16 scale layout at some exhibitions.

 

About 20 years ago, I bought several HO tram kits while on holiday in Prague. Still not built them but would like to make a small layout with some railway content as well.

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Here's anther 'old layout' I was involved with a little bit.

County End built by a friend of mine, I helped with the track a bit, originally set in Oldham, now the property of the Yorks area MBF, shown here with a couple of 'Yorks area' vehicles!

 

 

 

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@Trams and Locos has not posted anything on here...

 

a long time ago.. with the youngest Herbert operating the original bits of "Leeds Trams"

 

621282023_leedstramswithBazandson.jpg.fa9f5331ea4a81d0260ba400bc6c143e.jpg

 

That is the "Park" the very first bit of layout along with the City Scene

 

 

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and eventually - via a lot more tram layout it reached Headingley with its Depot (and moving cars and buses).

 

Great Fun!

 

Baz

 

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Once upon a time there was a gentleman in Croydon, no not I, who had built a 4mm scale tram layout.   My the mid 1990's his health had declined and he sold his tramcars.   He was left with a tram-less layout.   It was offered to me but I declined.   But with the start of Croydon Tramlink construction and the opening of its George Street tram shop, he decided to donate it for the shop.   It remained within very static until the tramway was opening and needed a ticket machine in its place.   It then languished in the Therapia Lane depot conference room with no future so Tramlink offered it to the Croydon Model Railway Society.   That concludes part one in the history of an exhibition layout as seen in some pictures of  it in the clubhouse.

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The tale now continues as part two.   At the time of its arrival, John Clarke and I were developing "West Croydon" as an exhibition layout to promote Tramlink and interest in the first generation Croydon trams.   John was a club member and roped me in to join to evaluate the donated layout.   Basically, having rejected it a decade earlier, I found it in a even worse condition but not the buildings.   The boards were rotten so John and I removed the buildings and developed a new more interesting layout plan.   Then John took the boards home demolished them and built a completely new baseboard.   What could be salvaged was now placed on the new road layout but still having the atmosphere of its original builder - Mr.Toop - whose memory carries on in its title "The Toop Tramway".   The next pictures are of it on display at a Croydon exhibition to attract new members particularly with an interest in tramways.   The overhead at this stage had not been erected.

ttr croydon 4.jpg

ttr croydon 5.jpg

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11 hours ago, coline33 said:

The tale now continues as part two.   At the time of its arrival, John Clarke and I were developing "West Croydon" as an exhibition layout to promote Tramlink and interest in the first generation Croydon trams.   John was a club member and roped me in to join to evaluate the donated layout.   Basically, having rejected it a decade earlier, I found it in a even worse condition but not the buildings.   The boards were rotten so John and I removed the buildings and developed a new more interesting layout plan.   Then John took the boards home demolished them and built a completely new baseboard.   What could be salvaged was now placed on the new road layout but still having the atmosphere of its original builder - Mr.Toop - whose memory carries on in its title "The Toop Tramway".   The next pictures are of it on display at a Croydon exhibition to attract new members particularly with an interest in tramways.   The overhead at this stage had not been erected.

ttr croydon 4.jpg

ttr croydon 5.jpg

 

 

I knew new you would have some, so I xcuse my ignorance what was tramlink.  Shop, manufacturer, both.  What period are you talking.

 

Edit.  I'm an idiot, I will leave my stupid question there.  I know what Croydens tramlink is.  So what was the shop?  I am surprised that at the cutting edge of rapid transit they would want anything to do with a dusty old tram less tramway model.  And I can see what period this was.

 

Andy

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Thanks, Andy.   There was civic pride in Croydon as 'Croydon Tramlink' got underway in 1996.   The tram shop was opened in George Street from the start of construction for information on progress and how businesses would be affected as work progressed.   So our Croydon resident decided to do his bit and donate his layout.   Tramlink and the Council could not be seen to be refusing so it went into a corner to help 'fill up' the shop space!   Now it is 'London Tramlink' the local touch has been lost.   The shop remains 'open' for sale of tickets/passes, etc. as well as for information and being a staff admin point being close to East Croydon station for changing drivers, etc.   Remember that the depot is at Therapia Lane so well away from the centre of passenger activity hence from the start this stop had a reversal line in addition to the Dingwall Road crossover.   When there is dislocation on the town centre tracks, Reeves Corner is the turnback for the Wimbledon service, Dingwall for Beckenham/Elmers End and centre road East Croydon for the New Addington service.   Right from the start of public operation in 2000 the shop's location has been a boon so hence its survival!

 

During construction I made weekly visits to the shop to collect my sheet of works that were being done in the following week.   It also gave me the means to draw attention to things that I saw going wrong as well as pointing out certain pieces of unusual splicing of track joints (just to keep worn out track going and not a burden on the rates) from the Addiscombe tramline closed in 1927, that should be saved for LT Museum.   Colin.

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The final part of "The Toop Tramway" story to date.   Club members produced several more buildings as the layout area had expanded to provide a second loop to create a depot area - our fiddle yard!!!   A club member had also with the opening of Croydon Tramlink built a smaller straight line layout based on the Wellesley Road stop.   He constructed a superb model of a CR4000 and it operated automatically so permitting the operator complete time for 'marketing' second generation tramways - it even went on operational display in the Houses of Parliament.   So the "Toop" was complimentary to it but gave the membership the 'manual' operation and run to do their own thing.   As always there comes the 'driver changeover'!   John and I were spending more time on developing "West Croydon" and exhibiting it in many locations.   Domestic circumstances come into play and we 'moved' away, John literately.   But at least "Toop" is looked after in the club house.   Here are some pictures of the layout in 2009 at the Erith MRC's exhibition at Dartford.   The triple track layout of the city centre is very much akin to East Croydon's.   Interestingly, the body of the blue liveried Bluebird, seen, is one of the models sold off before donation of the original layout! 

 

My thanks to Andy for introducing the historical side of tramway modelling as open forum.   Colin.

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Now to somethings of mine dating back to 1960 and my return home that January from living on the continent.   My eyes had been truly opened wide as I walked through tramway construction sites and sampling the multitude of tramcar types especially the different types of articulation in four countries.   I brought back my newly acquired Hamo models and the foresight of using modelling as a marketing tool for displaying tramway operation.   For this I built a portable layout of two boards, the larger of which was a double track return loop with the reserved track on the viewing side.   The smaller terminal board was four-tracked to permit viewing of the models themselves whilst still maintaining operation.   Its only public display was at a TLRS event on the High Road at Streatham Common where as a then non-member I displayed the small scale against the Society's large scale.   I was amazed at the interest shown by the public.   Why because I could operate the layout to create the running of trams as they could remember from the 3 minute headway of the 16/18s there.   All those big trams could do was trundle along a straight line.   Certain Society members saw this too and pressed for small scale recognition resulting in my joining and the creation of the Sub-Seven Section within.   So herewith some surviving views of the layout.   I will do a further item on the cars later.  

RM my 1960 layout 5.jpg

RM my 1960 layout 6.jpg

RM my 1960 layout 7.jpg

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Marriage and a move from Croydon to Benfleet meant a complete change!   So I found space to build a straight line layout to represent the 16/18/42 from Purley to Thornton Heath Pond.   Well, I started on Purley's terminal board with track and overhead exactly as found there and built the outside walls of Brigstock Villa, Thornton Heath depot's office.   However, that was short-lived as family and business matters took toll of my spare time, then returning back to Croydon so this proved to be the last tram layout I built in the 20th century!!!   After this I just concentrated my time on helping develop BEC Models tram kits with Adrian Swain and just building London Transport tramcars.   In the following pictures you will see the first BEC ex-Walthamstow E/1 kit built model (alas it was too wide!) and the first  castings assembled from the Feltham moulds showing the car on test before BEC Kit No.14 was released.   Please keep these and the other pictures in mind for the last of my layouts to follow.   Yes, there is a test to be done after all this!!!818834695_RMphoto20.jpg.871483b2569f6cec68b5ce177dda0a86.jpg1226398115_RMpurleylayout3-17712252010.jpg.36307c2c5358597de7b3a3f72d877c65.jpg      

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Now to conclude my historical look at my boards of the 20th century.   There was a common but unconnected board to maintain both 1960's layouts.   It was also from this board that I took my trams to run on the conduit and overhead tramlines of the 4mm scale railway layout that ran round through the upper floor of a detached house in Wallington, the then home of the Carshalton & Sutton MRC.   The conduit tramway served Manor Park station (in one room) whilst the overhead line went out into the countryside (in another room).   My unconnected board was a multi-track depot in which all my then model trams were kept and run, as can be seen in these pictures.

 

Now to the test!   1.   Can you identify the manufacturers of the RTR and kit built trams?     2.   Which tram is now preserved in a museum and where?     

RM depot 2 12-5-1963 - 1 104 13 10 14 T20 21 2 1858 7 4 5 3 22 23 201 133.jpg

RM depot 4 early 1962 - 5 1858 4 14 22 9 10.jpg

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Now I am going to draw attention to the appearance in some of my views of that Manchester liveried Pilcher!   It was beautifully built by David Edgeley when he was at Manchester University in the mid-1950s.   It ran well on a home-made metal chassis bent from model railway track with the basics of a motor soldered in between.   When he left it with me it was accompanied by another tram he had constructed on a Hamo motored bogie chassis.   The body was Manchester liveried and he had designed it to be Manchester's future tram.   It was double deck and bi-directional with front entrance and centre exit with the appearance of buses not to be seen for a decade or so later.   Both bodies did find new homes so I cannot say any more than express just how progressive then were David's thoughts for the future design of buses and trams.   Now I will rest and look forward to your answers to my 'lockdown' questions! 

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14 hours ago, coline33 said:

Now I am going to draw attention to the appearance in some of my views of that Manchester liveried Pilcher!   It was beautifully built by David Edgeley when he was at Manchester University in the mid-1950s.   It ran well on a home-made metal chassis bent from model railway track with the basics of a motor soldered in between.   When he left it with me it was accompanied by another tram he had constructed on a Hamo motored bogie chassis.   The body was Manchester liveried and he had designed it to be Manchester's future tram.   It was double deck and bi-directional with front entrance and centre exit with the appearance of buses not to be seen for a decade or so later.   Both bodies did find new homes so I cannot say any more than express just how progressive then were David's thoughts for the future design of buses and trams.   Now I will rest and look forward to your answers to my 'lockdown' questions! 

 

I can't answer your questions, I am out of my depth but keen to play the game.

 

in the first B&W shot there is no Piltcher, no distinctive wrap over roof.  I also don't believe in here is one preserved either.  Suspect that's it with its nose poking out of the single road shed.  

 

Kit manufacturers i have no idea.  I started at BEC and came forward.  Given your comments about you role and timing with BEC they are not as old as I had assumed so I doubt I know any of these.

 

i will see if I can spot the preserved tram.

 

Andy

 

 

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Thanks, Andy, the Manchester Pilcher does appear in B&W views 1, 3 and 6 all be it front end only.   As a clue the preserved model is in the National Model Tram Museum collection currently situated north of you.   I will give it a week for others to respond and then give the answers.   

 

Pleased to read that you started with the BEC kits.   After the introduction of the BEC/ABS West Ham balcony kit, at a TLRS meeting at Keen House, London, a youngster proudly presented a lovely model built from it.   He put it in the palm of my hand and his facial expression soon changed as we and others watched it slowly returning to its component parts.   I knew I was a warm person but not that hot!!!   Then he told me he had used UHU throughout!!!    From then on I always asked what glue was used before handling!   Colin.

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As a fellow member of Stafford Railway Circle from the late 1970s I well remember the Tram layout that Andy was involved in.

 

I vaguely remember operating the layout at one our exhibitions either at Stychfields or what was the Borough Hall 

 

On a similar tram theme I remember being part of the Stafford club exhibiting our the club layout  OO Littleton Junction at I think the Tram Depot at Birkenhead.

 

The layout was in the Tram Shed complete with rails and a cobbled stone set floor.

 

Trying to level the layout was a nightmare, but great fun 

 

So Andy when are you building your next tram layout ?
 

Terry 

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8 hours ago, ELTEL said:

As a fellow member of Stafford Railway Circle from the late 1970s I well remember the Tram layout that Andy was involved in.

 

I vaguely remember operating the layout at one our exhibitions either at Stychfields or what was the Borough Hall 

 

On a similar tram theme I remember being part of the Stafford club exhibiting our the club layout  OO Littleton Junction at I think the Tram Depot at Birkenhead.

 

The layout was in the Tram Shed complete with rails and a cobbled stone set floor.

 

Trying to level the layout was a nightmare, but great fun 

 

So Andy when are you building your next tram layout ?
 

Terry 

 

Hi Tel

 

We had some good times with that layout didn't we.

 

I am still picking at my Black Country steam tram project.  Lack of time is the enemy.

 

I'm sure I have some more photos somewhere, there is the suburban reserved track section. 

 

 The oddest gig we did with the tram layout was 1987 St Paul's Church in Birmingham.  we had to stand in the pews...   It was something to do with a Bolton Watt anniversary, Birmingham's festival of steam.  I took photos of the church and the pipe organ but not the tram layout.  Back in the days of film cameras a snap came with a financial commitment and I could look at the tram layout twice a week...

 

Andy

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I went to a small exhibition in Sheffield, probably within the last 5 years. Was that Croydon layout there? If not there was something quite similar, with illuminated Blackpool trams. The exhibition was mainly buses & trams, but there were a couple of railway layouts too. Grime Street was also there.

This may be the one?

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2 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I went to a small exhibition in Sheffield, probably within the last 5 years. Was that Croydon layout there? If not there was something quite similar, with illuminated Blackpool trams. The exhibition was mainly buses & trams, but there were a couple of railway layouts too. Grime Street was also there.

This may be the one?

30_5191_13-06-2015.jpg

That's Bob Wardle's Chesfield tramways.....Show would have been at Bob Heathcote's central methodist church in middle of Sheffield, Bob (H) was minister there and also founder/memb sec/chairman etc of Model Bus Federation, so ran a smallish show there.

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My re-interest (if there is a word) in model trams coincided with the final 'Festival of model tramways'.  Reading between the lines the organisers wanted a London venue or nothing.

 

Is there a desire to show tram layouts, are they out there.  I posted a thread a couple of years ago, saying whats out there, tell me about your layouts.  7 replies most were Colin.  Not much watching RMweb.  In fairness however this is a model railway forum so I understand.  Is there wealth of layouts out there or is just a few of us?

 

I  include myself in this seamingly elite group

 

Seriously was the tramway festival on its knees  with lack of interest or were the London centric (not a criticism you are where you are) organisers not able to organise an event outside of London ( I know they tried).

 

 

 

Andy

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58 minutes ago, wagonbasher said:

My re-interest (if there is a word) in model trams coincided with the final 'Festival of model tramways'.  Reading between the lines the organisers wanted a London venue or nothing.

 

Is there a desire to show tram layouts, are they out there.  I posted a thread a couple of years ago, saying whats out there, tell me about your layouts.  7 replies most were Colin.  Not much watching RMweb.  In fairness however this is a model railway forum so I understand.  Is there wealth of layouts out there or is just a few of us?

 

I  include myself in this seamingly elite group

 

Seriously was the tramway festival on its knees  with lack of interest or were the London centric (not a criticism you are where you are) organisers not able to organise an event outside of London ( I know they tried).

 

 

 

Andy

Ok, my 2p worth,  there are a good few layouts out there, most won't feature on here as the most active tram modelling online resources are on FB. 

 

Personally whilst I built a reasonably successful tram layout , I don't consider my myself as purely a tram modeller.... hence my presence here.

 

Regarding the Festival of model tramways, that is a whole different game. The festival was a privately run show, it wasn't a TLRS show, I became somewhat disenchanted at exhibiting there after doing quite a few....no expenses were paid and to a London show would cost me at least 2-300 quid all in...and that's not even taking time off as a self employed person into account....On my last visit to a 'London' festival having carted one of the bigger displays the longest distance I was pointed to the NCP car park round the back after unloading whilst some more local exhibitors managed to park for free.....yeah I wasn't happy.

 

Festival (north) to a degree had already been  usurped by a show at Rigby Rd Blackpool and Covid 19 notwithstanding  will most likely continue....However I doubt there will be a 'national' show again as who will organise it? The TLRS are nominally the tram modelling society but they won't unless there are changes, and a number of more active exhibitors are no longer members.

 

Sorry for the long boring answers....as to are tram layouts in demand for exhibition (or were pre this year) yes definitely, I already have a good few invites for Grime Sts successor on the 'when you're ready' basis.....motivation is the issue! 

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