Jump to content

Recommended Posts

A question about wagon sheets specifically those used on the older 013 china clay wagons which while often filled to a prominent dome, were basically flat and not the later "hoods".

 

In photos sometimes these sheets extend almost to the solebars, sometimes quite high only covering a couple of planks.

 

My question is, did the sheets vary in size and some bigger ones covered more of the wagon, or will it be they were standard but often tied on lopsided so if the side visible was low, the other side would be high?

Edited by Hal Nail
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just about everything on the GWR was "standard" so there were very probably set sizes for tarps.  You certainly need a bigger one for opens with sheet rails than for "plain" opens.  Then there are "long" opens like OPEN C

 

As for lopsided - you have probably answered your own question - as long as the load was covered and the sheet was firm.........a wagon sized tarp was not a lightweight item, and once it was on, shuffling it about to get the "perfect" drop on each side was probably a luxury that manpower, time and strength didn't allow for.  

 

Imagine the effort taken by two guys to sheet 20 china clay wagons?

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

The GWR Instructions make no reference at all to any different sizes being used for wagon sheets so on that basis it is very unlikely that more than one size existed.   However if a wagon was double sheeted it is w quite possible that teh way the sheets were overlapped would caiuse them to look different on the wagon.

 

However there was more than one type of sheet and while station sheets should not have been used on wagons but only to sheet traffic on hand it is possible that they were not the same size as wagon sheets.  Parcels tarpaulins were definitely different - hence no doubt them being called tarpaulins rather than sheets (although even then in one place they are referred to as parcels sheets :scratchhead:) and were kept in parcels offices when not in use.  An earlier Instruction refers to them as 'light tarpaulin'  so they were obviously not the same sort of material or treated with the same sort of proofing as wagon sheets.

 

Tarpaulins were of course what Shunters etc wore as protection from bad weather and to help keep them dry.  The things which went on wagons were sheets and were made from a thicker and heavier material.

 

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

A while ago I made some notes for modelling a gwr goods train, one of those notes was that ca. 1939 GW wagon sheets were all a single standard size ie 14'4" by 21'  and the markings were much simplified with GWR and sheet number twice each in white facing the shorter sides only and the reproofing date in red four times facing the long edges.

 

I cannot remember exactly which books I noted it from but suspect it was GWWay later edition or perhaps an article in GWRJ.  Will see if I can find the ref this evening.

 

 

 

Edited by GWR_Modeller
Typographical error
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, GWR_Modeller said:

Hi,

A while ago I made some notes for modelling a gwr goods train, one of those notes was that ca. 1939 GW wagon sheets were all a single standard size ie 14'4" by 21'  and the markings were much simplified with GWR and sheet number twice each in white facing the shorter sides only and the reproofing date in red four times facing the long edges.

 

I cannot remember exactly which books I noted it from but suspect it was GWWay later edition or perhaps an article in GWRJ.  Will see if I can find the ref this evening.

 

 

 


GWW (3rd) has a whole appendix dedicated to wagon sheets and includes a drawing.

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Hal Nail changed the title to GWR wagon sheets
9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Tarpaulins were of course what Shunters etc wore as protection from bad weather and to help keep them dry.  The things which went on wagons were sheets and were made from a thicker and heavier material.

 

Well done, I was waiting to see who would spot first :)

(I've edited the title now which will no doubt make this confusing).

 

Thanks all for the info - I'll make them all standard and vary the positioning a little. Looking carefully at the photos there are a few older private owners mixed into the rakes of GWR clay wagons and of course a slightly different sized wagon would affect how the sheets appeared.

Edited by Hal Nail
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I model in N and I found the commercial shets ones I bought were too thick and difficult to fold to suit me and so I made a few of my own from Rizla papers, plain not liquorice, and tin foil.  Once cut to size and folded over a shaped load I dropped runny super glue on the paper to set it.

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, GWR_Modeller said:

I model in N and I found the commercial shets ones I bought were too thick and difficult to fold to suit me and so I made a few of my own from Rizla papers

I'm in 7mm so would have to be a Camberwell Carrot if I used Rizlas but I will probably go down the route of decent tissue paper.

  • Funny 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The 21'0" x 14'4" size was standard across Britain by the time of the grouping and, indeed, a good while earlier. It's also to be remembered that from the Great War onwards, not only were ordinary open wagons pooled but also sheets - so one could see any company's sheet on any company's wagon. Nicely illustrated by the second photo down here; LMS and LNER sheets on an LMS wagon, LMS and unidentifiable on a GW wagon. That also shows two sheets being used crossways for a high load. The rule was that the overlap should be in the trailing direction, so that the wind wouldn't get into the gap and lift the upper sheet.

 

However, if the china clay traffic had dedicated, non-pool wagons, it might also have used bespoke non-pool sheets? The idea of having dedicated wagons will have been to avoid contamination of or by other loads; the same reasoning might extend to sheets.

Edited by Compound2632
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

However, if the china clay traffic had dedicated, non-pool wagons, it might also have used bespoke non-pool sheets? The idea of having dedicated wagons will have been to avoid contamination of or by other loads; the same reasoning might extend to sheets.

Yes that had crossed my mind - not only non pool wagons but purpose built. 

Furthermore i model BR and always possibly that they made up new sheets.

On the other hand of course, highly unlikely anyone will know if I get it wrong!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
13 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Yes that had crossed my mind - not only non pool wagons but purpose built. 

Furthermore i model BR and always possibly that they made up new sheets.

On the other hand of course, highly unlikely anyone will know if I get it wrong!

BR changed to using plastic sheets instead of the traditional fabric version and some where definitely specifically for use on china clay flows.  Alas I can't date the change for you.

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
23 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

21'0" x 14'4"

 

Confirmed for the GWR in Tony Atkins' GWR Goods Services Part 2A, although he does not give dates. He says they weighed about 75 lbs. Anything more than 112 lbs (a hundredweight) was deemed too much for one man to carry. 

 

The book has a couple of nice shots of sheets being prepared in one of the sheet shops. One of them has a neat set of paint-stained footprints right across the sheet. An opportunity to individualise your sheets :)

 

Edited by Mikkel
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Having been looking at modelling some o13s (all be it in Devon rather than Cornwall) I haven’t seen many period photos

yet.  But a lot of the wagon obscured by the sheet is going to make my job of backdating the BR wagon to GW condition a lot easier!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.