RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Does anyone know why D60, alone among the otherwise regiment-named Class 45s, was named after a seaside resort? I know that this was one of a set of resort names that had been applied to the Patriots, but I wonder why just one of these names was perpetuated. Edited November 19, 2020 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted November 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2020 I think the association is more with Patriot names. 53 Royal Tank Regiment, 54 The Royal Pioneer Corps, 55 Royal Signals and 56 The Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment (T.A.) all took their names from recently-withdrawn Patriots (suitably updated). Just think, we could have had Lady Godiva or Morecambe and Wise Heysham. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 19, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, Jeremy C said: I think the association is more with Patriot names. 53 Royal Tank Regiment, 54 The Royal Pioneer Corps, 55 Royal Signals and 56 The Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment (T.A.) all took their names from recently-withdrawn Patriots (suitably updated). Just think, we could have had Lady Godiva or Morecambe and Wise Heysham. Or E. Tootal Broadhurst Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Can't comment on the name (which puzzled me too) but it was the first recorded named Peak to reach Penzance - it worked the up 1E21 'Cornishman' service on Sunday 5th July 1970. Just thought I'd chuck that in..... 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 20, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Neil Phillips said: Can't comment on the name (which puzzled me too) but it was the first recorded named Peak to reach Penzance - it worked the up 1E21 'Cornishman' service on Sunday 5th July 1970. Just thought I'd chuck that in..... D60 enjoyed the notoriety of having worked the last train on the Waverley Route, so when I spotted it for the first time at Temple Meads - probably around the time you mentioned - I felt I'd seen a celebrity loco. I might also mention that for many years I wondered why the Third Carabinier was worthy of a loco name when the First and the Second were not - but on looking them up I discovered that there never were any 1st or 2nd Carabiniers. Edited November 20, 2020 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
csvt2004 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Apparently Lytham St Annes is also the name of a regiment. RAF I think. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said: Or E. Tootal Broadhurst , His inclusion in the 'Patriot' class would seem to have come from his directorship of the L&NWR and because he was on the organising committee for recruitment for the 'Pals' battalions during WW1. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Andy I have wondered this as well, particularly as I am researching the history of the Peaks. There are several files at the National Archives from the period on names and namings so I shall see if there is anything in any of them when Kew reopens again at some point. Would be nice to get to the bottom of it for sure. Simon 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 20, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, slilley said: Andy I have wondered this as well, particularly as I am researching the history of the Peaks. There are several files at the National Archives from the period on names and namings so I shall see if there is anything in any of them when Kew reopens again at some point. Would be nice to get to the bottom of it for sure. Simon Thanks Simon. I woud appreciate hearing the outcome of your research. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted November 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 20, 2020 Lytham St Annes has very strong military connections https://amounderness.co.uk/wartime_&_military.html, which may have been a factor. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 20/11/2020 at 14:23, Andy Kirkham said: Thanks Simon. I woud appreciate hearing the outcome of your research. Andy If anything floats to the surface I will let know, though the full story may well have to wait until the fruits of my Peak research is published!! Best wishes Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 On 20/11/2020 at 14:16, slilley said: There are several files at the National Archives from the period on names and namings so I shall see if there is anything in any of them when Kew reopens again at some point. Would be nice to get to the bottom of it for sure. You probably already have these two in your sights: Regimental Naming Of Locomotives 1960 - 63 Regimental Naming Of Locomotives 1963 - 76 The problem with Kew is that the day just seems to evaporate! I know when I've used it and have been perusing catalogues there always seems to be something ready to sidetrack you from your target. Good luck with the search.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted November 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) The Names list at railway-centre.com has D60 named, without ceremony, at Derby Works on 01/05/64. The Regiment-named ones were similarly named without ceremony at Works but had plates with the Coats-of-Arms incorporated. Did any of them have a subsequent dedication ceremony? Edited November 21, 2020 by keefer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 14 hours ago, keefer said: The Regiment-named ones were similarly named without ceremony at Works but had plates with the Coats-of-Arms incorporated. Did any of them have a subsequent dedication ceremony? Some locos did have official naming ceremonies, generally a few days after having the plates applied at Derby works: D49 The Manchester Regiment - Manchester Piccadilly 09/10/65 D52 The Lancashire Fusilier - Manchester Piccadilly 31/10/63 D54 The Royal Pioneer Corps - London St Pancras 14/11/63 D56 The Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment (T.A.) - Bedford Midland 08/12/62 D58 The King's Own Royal Border Regiment - Carlisle 01/05/63 D59 The Royal Warwickshire Fusiliers - Birmingham Snow Hill 22/05/64 D62 5th Royal Inniskilling Dragoon Guards - London St Pancras 30/11/64 D70 The Royal Marines - London St Pancras 02/12/64 D89 Honourable Artillery Company - London Broad Street 09/06/65 D100 Sherwood Forester - Derby Midland 23/09//61 D137 The Cheshire Regiment - Chester 12/06/66 D163 Leicestershire and Derbyshire Yeomanry - Derby Midland 14/04/62 D62 / 45143 was later adorned with an additional "1685 - 1985" plate in the same style as the original at a ceremony held at London Waterloo 11/06/85 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 I read somewhere years ago that there was a military influence on the name. D60 was a very early recipient of blue with full yellow ends following refurbishment: D60_Derby_1967 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Not all 45s received the same extent of work as D60, which ended up looking more like a refurbished 46. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 On 21/11/2020 at 19:34, SP Steve said: You probably already have these two in your sights: Regimental Naming Of Locomotives 1960 - 63 Regimental Naming Of Locomotives 1963 - 76 The problem with Kew is that the day just seems to evaporate! I know when I've used it and have been perusing catalogues there always seems to be something ready to sidetrack you from your target. Good luck with the search.... Kew has been sidetracking me since 1997!! Four books has been the result of the sidetracking plus a few magazine articles. Its a wonderful place for railway history. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) Posted on wrong thread... Edited November 29, 2023 by Peter Kazmierczak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 On 22/11/2020 at 13:32, robertcwp said: I read somewhere years ago that there was a military influence on the name. D60 was a very early recipient of blue with full yellow ends following refurbishment: D60_Derby_1967 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Not all 45s received the same extent of work as D60, which ended up looking more like a refurbished 46. The full scope of work carried out during the refurbishing of the Class 45s and indeed the Class 46s is in my Peak book. I think it is the first time the entire work has been detailed in print. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Doubtless it's all in Simon's book, but I don't think there was a military influence in the naming of D60; RAF Lytham was a short-lived post WW2 base which lasted barely ten years. More likely , the names of former LMS Patriot locos was the consideration in its choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 47 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said: Doubtless it's all in Simon's book, but I don't think there was a military influence in the naming of D60; RAF Lytham was a short-lived post WW2 base which lasted barely ten years. More likely , the names of former LMS Patriot locos was the consideration in its choice. There was no military influence in D60's name, the reason why it was named, has not floated to the surface in the BR archives sadly. The Peak book will explain in some detail how the regiment names came to be applied. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) If Simon's diligent research can't trace the origins of the naming of D60, then it's probably lost in the mists of time. However, my thoughts... Some of the LMS Patriot 4-6-0s were named after, not necessarily holiday resorts, but "a town served by the company". Obviously most were resorts, maybe prompted by the local town council to boost tourism. With the withdrawal of the steam engine bearing their name, I wonder if the good folks of Lytham approached BR to append it to a diesel? 45548 was withdrawn in September 1962. D60 was named (without any ceremony at Derby Loco) in May 1964. Hence before the decision to stop naming engines. During my time as the local history librarian for Bournemouth Council, I tried to persuade South West Trains to name one of their (then new) class 444 units after the town, to mark its bicentenary. After some correspondence, it kind of died a death. Maybe Lytham St Annes had more success in promoting their resort... Edited December 1, 2023 by Peter Kazmierczak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 hours ago, slilley said: The full scope of work carried out during the refurbishing of the Class 45s and indeed the Class 46s is in my Peak book. I think it is the first time the entire work has been detailed in print. Simon Your book is next to me right now. Just about to start reading it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 19 minutes ago, robertcwp said: Your book is next to me right now. Just about to start reading it. Mine will be under the Christmas tree for another 24 days... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I suppose there isn't any link between the name of D60 and the fact that the Premium Bond office was (still is?) located in Lytham St Annes? Premium Bonds were first issued in 1956. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted December 2, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2023 I suppose an equality valid question is why was 46026 the only named class 46? Given that it's named after a regiment, and there were plenty unnamed 45's, you'd think a 45 would have been chosen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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