Class 323

[Wagonmaster]

Looking for some help on the Class 323's. I have just bought one of those 3D printed versions as advertised on eBay.

 

The print looks quite good, but as always, I like to have a drawing of what I'm building. So, does anyone have a drawing of a 323 unit I could have a copy of please?

 

Any information on the corridor end details would also be appreciated, such as what written info is there, restriction codes, TOPS info etc.

 

Many thanks

[ISW]

3 hours ago, Wagpnmaster said:

Looking for some help on the Class 323's.

It's already within RMWeb. This link will help. Just keep reading from there.

 

 

Ian

[Wagonmaster]

Thanks for that ISW, I am aware of that thread. Unfortunately I can't see any reference to any drawings, which is what I'm really after.

[Londontram]

I got really excited when I saw you wanted to build a 323 class then my hopes were dashed.

 

The Caledonian 323 class 0-6-0 saddle tank, a propper loco.

 

[ISW]

On 20/11/2020 at 19:20, Wagpnmaster said:

Thanks for that ISW, I am aware of that thread. Unfortunately I can't see any reference to any drawings, which is what I'm really after.

No drawings, but I've attached the Modern Locos Illustrated article on the Class 323 in case that's of any use.

 

Ian

Pages from Modern Locomotives Illustrated 2017-12 & 2018-01 - London Midland & North West Area EMUs (228).pdf

[Wagonmaster]

Hi Ian, many thanks for that. Useful pictures re livery etc. 

 

Pity there's no drawings though. I just wanted to check door heights and underframe strengthening as some seem to think they're slightly out.

 

Thanks again

 

Steve

[JDW]

Either they are slightly out or the pictures of the real thing are slightly out. A bogie centered under the saloon window would be prevented from turning by the driving car underframe strengthening. Whether or not it is accurate I wouldn't like to say for certain without drawings, but as the pics I posted show, the bogie won't fit so it needed trimming. The centre car appears to be correct though, and this may have been corrected on later print runs of the driving cars of course, I don't know.

 

Also look at the lower bodyside - it is pretty much straight in line with the step boards on the doors. I believe there is some kind of rebate, just visible underneath in some pics, but not as pronounced as on the prints and not on the bodyside. It can just be made out on the image of 323220 at Birmingham on p53 of the article referenced above, above the front axle.

 

For the door tops, have a look at the picture on my thread where I 'doodled' the GMPTE livery and compare the line of the livery with the top corner of the windscreen. Someone else on here did one in Northern colours, and again if you look at the relationship between the livery on the side and the windscreen, it highlights the issue. 

 

As I said on my thread, I suspect the window line is a bit low. I can't do anything about that but raising the door tops a couple of mm is a very easy change. 

[Wagonmaster]

Hi JDW,

 

Thanks for your reply and observations. I have been following your thread with interest, but was hoping someone may have some drawings to compare with.

 

I've only just stuck the body halves together, but will try your method of 'doodling' the Centro livery and see what ends up where! Trying to finish off other stuff, you know how it is.

 

As regards the bogies and door strengthening, could it be because you're not using the 'correct' bogies? I just thought I'd throw that in there as a thought, no criticism intended. At the end of the day, if any of the bogies used won't turn, it will have to be trimmed!

 

I'll have a closer look over the next few days and see what's what. As you say, the prints may have altered since your version.

[JDW]

Hi @Wagpnmaster

 

Regarding the bogies, that's a very sensible thought, no criticism taken. I did wonder it myself, but as far as I know most 'second generation' BR multiple units use pretty similar bogies in terms of wheelbase. They would have to be at least a scale foot shorter to fit in the gap at the cab end. I do think I've probably trimmed the strengthening plate back a little further than it should be, but only by around 1mm, to allow sufficient clearance for bogie swing. The decider for me was comparing with the centre car where the strengthening plates are clearly asymetrical in relation to the door and the bogie lines up as I'd expected it should. I don't know if he'll produce bogies yet or if I'll end up using ones from a RTR model, so as you say it's hard to judge fully.

 

The only thing close to a drawing I've seen is the one found here: http://www.westcoastminiatures.com/class323.html but that isn't complete. Might be worth having a look through their Facebook page to see if the project got anywhere. 

 

Do be careful with the plastic - I'm sure you've seen on my thread already that I've accidentally cracked the bodyside a couple of times through light pressure or flexing when working on it. When heated it is very soft, but when cold very brittle. I've still not found the courage to heat up the second and third coaches a second time to narrow them a bit more! On the plus side, standing it nose to nose with a 156 the first coach looks the right height and width when sat on bogies.

Edited December 1, 2020 by JDW
typo

[Wagonmaster]

Hi JDW,

 

Glad no offence was taken. I'm guessing the bogies are the usual 8ft 6in wheelbase. I have now had a look at my bodies and you are right. The driving cars are different to the trailer and will need a bit of trimming to allow the bogies to rotate.

 

I did take note of your observation about the brittleness of the plastic, but still managed to crack one! Hardly noticeable, but I will have to be more careful.

 

I'm sure the supplier will produce the bogie sideframes and etched window frames in due course. It took a little while with the Class 313 kit. I used Southern Pride nylon bogie frames for the 313 and glued the sideframes on. The end transoms have to be cut off and sides trimmed a little, but works very well. These frames allow you to use either their tension lock couplers, or in my case, somewhere to attach the Kadee gearbox to. The 323's might need an extension piece added as they have quite an overhang.

 

Not checked the door heights and livery yet, but guessing you're right about that too.

[JDW]

That's a good idea for the bogies, I hadn't thought of Southern Pride, I'll check those out thanks. 

 

I find the biggest problem with cracking it is that whereas a normal plastic body glues easily back together with plastic weld, just putting superglue in the crack isn't enough and I had to re-inforce it from behind. As you say, hardly noticeable, but annoying nonetheless.

 

Have you seen @OTrail's new thread? He's just started building one too.

[Wagonmaster]

I tend to use Southern Pride P146 nylon bogie shells. They have a coupling fixing moulding which I use to fit a Kadee gearbox. I like to use Kadee's for the inner car to car couplings, but with the 'tails' cut off. In addition, I use half insulated wheels, normally DCC Concepts, with the pick up springs soldered to a strip of PCB, which is glued to the underside of the bogie, to provide power for head/tail lights and interior lights via a dcc decoder.

 

With more modern bogies, which are a 'H' frame type, the end transoms have to be cut off as they would be visible. The sideframes are just glued on. The whole bogie is attached the the chassis with nut and bolt. Sounds more complicated than it is. 

 

Below are two pictures to show what I mean. The first is the underside of a Class 310 bogie. The second is a close up of a Class 313 bogie.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Wagpnmaster
Typo