Class 66 derailment

[Trog]

On 21/11/2020 at 21:22, Andymsa said:

....................
Then again in Australia it’s been trialled to use music in the driving cab to help concentration but in the uk it’s a no no. 

 

That makes sense I can see how having Tie my Kangaroo down sport and Waltzing Matilda on an endless loop tape would encourage a desperate concentration on anything else. The only problem I can see is hearing the AWS horn over the drivers screaming.

[Andymsa]

50 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Agreed - but if research proves that conversations are detrimental to concentration (exactly how detrimental varying of course depending on the individual), then its entirely reasonable to try discourage them from taking place at the same time as safety critical activities are taking place - hence the 'mobiles off and in the bag' policy by some TOCs or the ban on the use of 'hands free' options for Network Rail employees while on duty.

 

and that is the whole point where we started this conversation, it’s how a distraction is dealt with and as a driver to deal with those distractions on a daily basis in a professional manner. The original point was that the driver of the class 66 derailment was dealing with a personal issue when approaching buffer stops, as I said it’s about common sense when dealing with such things. Unfortunately common sense is something that’s missing from the industry these days as pointed out by the chap who reported that a TOC company policy on GSMR calls was to stop the train before taking the call.

 

as to the point of a driver being a special breed, I do take umbrage to individuals who seem to think they know a train drivers job when they never driven a train or understand the challenges involved. On a day to day basis it is a straight forward job and to an outsider looks easy, but when things go wrong that’s when you have to step up a gear. There appears to be a whole industry that thrives on this from having to listen to whale music to NTS ( non technical skills) courses. No drivers are not a special breed, just human like us all.

 

 

 

 

[daveyb]

On 22/11/2020 at 13:26, phil-b259 said:

... in some careers after all good conversational skills and the ability to quickly react on them are a must.

 

Its why psychometric testing has become such an important part of recruitment for certain jobs, such testing should provide a way of filtering out those whose personalities and behaviours under pressure may be a cause for concern.

 

 

Having been subject to psychometric testing during a career that a great many people would find stressful to the point of frightening, I would suggest it's not very effective. 

 

Despite the testing being carried out by some very experienced people with well funded scientific support from a Govt agency, most of us were intelligent enough to work out the answers required rather than giving the 'reaction' sought.  Some of us passed then displayed,regularly, the attributes the testing was supposed to weed out.  Some of us placed other people in danger (more danger, it was a dangerous situation anyway).  Some of us were assessed ideal but invariably failed to make the required decisions quickly enough, compromising delivery of the effect necessary. Some of us who passed are dead.

 

Very early in my career, was deemed unsuitable for trade training or even for further service, but we were short of people so I was trained anyway and managed 25 years without incident.

 

Psychometric testing is definitely not the answer here; this was simply an unlucky course of events initiated by a lapse in concentration, the cause of which can be legislated against if not eradicated.

[Bomag]

19 minutes ago, daveyb said:

Having been subject to psychometric testing during a career that a great many people would find stressful to the point of frightening, I would suggest it's not very effective. 

 

Despite the testing being carried out by some very experienced people with well funded scientific support from a Govt agency, most of us were intelligent enough to work out the answers required rather than giving the 'reaction' sought.  Some of us passed then displayed,regularly, the attributes the testing was supposed to weed out.  Some of us placed other people in danger (more danger, it was a dangerous situation anyway).  Some of us were assessed ideal but invariably failed to make the required decisions quickly enough, compromising delivery of the effect necessary. Some of us who passed are dead.

 

Very early in my career, was deemed unsuitable for trade training or even for further service, but we were short of people so I was trained anyway and managed 25 years without incident.

 

Psychometric testing is definitely not the answer here; this was simply an unlucky course of events initiated by a lapse in concentration, the cause of which can be legislated against if not eradicated.

 

There is a difference between psychometric and physiological testing; when looking at fatigue and distraction the former is not relevant. It is impossible to properly fake the latter as it involves involuntary aspects e.g. pupil dilatation and skin conductivity.

[daveyb]

I would argue that it is equally irrelevant as too many external variances will affect the objectivity of any testing for a situation which will always be open to subjectivity because no two events with two different people can ever be the same or exactly repeated.

[Craig1989]

Out of interest what would happen to the driver would he be put on light duties or suspended or allowed to carry on