Need help with poor H/D Castle running.

[cypherman]

 

Hi all,

I need some help after a cosmetic restoration of a H/D 2 rail castle which I have just completed . It is the one with the 3/4 ringfield motor. It has also been serviced and should run well. BUT! there seems to be a problem with it. It runs wonderfully backwards smooth fast and slow. But forwards it can barely manage any thing faster than a crawl. If the tender(This is an ex Hornby Hogwarts tender so it ways next to nothing) is disconnected it runs a little better and if the body is removed it runs a little bit better again. If it is ran by just putting power to the wheels it seems to run a little better again forwards. but once on the track it is basically a no go. Yet as I have said backwards it is a completely different engine. Any one got any ideas or suggestions about what might be wrong.

Edited November 21, 2020 by cypherman

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, cypherman said:

 

Hi all,

I need some help a cosmetic restoration of a H/D 2 rail castle which I have just completed . It is the one with the 3/4 ringfield motor. It has also been serviced and should run well. BUT! there seems to be a problem with it. It runs wonderfully backwards smooth fast and slow. But forwards it can barely manage any thing faster than a crawl. If the tender(This is an ex Hornby Hogwarts tender so it ways next to nothing) is disconnected it runs a little better and if the body is removed it runs a little bit better again. If it is ran by just putting power to the wheels it seems to run a little better again forwards. but once on the track it is basically a no go. Yet as I have said backwards it is a completely different engine. Any one got any ideas or suggestions about what might be wrong.

It would appear that your chassis is binding somewhere. Try taking out the motor and run it independently, does it work OK? Then try pushing the chassis both ways and see if it binds at all.

[cypherman]

38 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

It would appear that your chassis is binding somewhere. Try taking out the motor and run it independently, does it work OK? Then try pushing the chassis both ways and see if it binds at all.

Hi Kevin,

Well the motor runs freely both ways when off the chassis. But so does the chassis with the motor off. The motor also seems to run alright now when power is put directly to the wheels where no load is put on the motor. But put the body and tender back on and put back on the track and yes it still runs great back wards but forwards there has been a little improvement. It still runs really really slowly but at least now it does not keep stopping. I have thoroughly cleaned the track to make sure it is not that.

[PaulRhB]

It could be the gear mesh is tight, as the motor turns the worm tries to go forwards / backwards and therefore turns the gear. If it’s at the extreme it may cause the motor to pull forward or backwards and bind against the frame.
Does it run ok with the body off? The body etc may be pushing down, forwards or backwards on the motor casing enough to cause the binding, check there’s nothing moved or a trapped wire forcing it as you put the body on.
The other thing to try is some very thin paper between worm and gear as you screw down the motor to give clearance. You can wind the worm to remove the paper sideways. If it’s very tight it may be worth a thin shim under the motor to lift it off the gear a fraction. 

[Silverfox17]

If you stripped the motor did you put the ball bearings back? That could cause the motor to be tight one way if one was missing. 

 

Garry 

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I did not strip the motor, Just oiled the bearings. The motor seems run fine in both directions when it is not on the track when the body is on as long as it is not on the track. Then it only runs well in reverse. Going forwards it is a little better since I oiled the bearings and as I said it it now runs forwards at a crawl. I suppose it could be that when there is pressure on the wheels it is pushing the worm and gear tighter together in when it runs in one direction. I will try a slim shim between the motor and the chassis to see if it is that as suggested.

Thanks for the help. Will let you know how I get on.

[Il Grifone]

There should be a small amount of play in the armature shaft. Check that this is the case and that there is no damage to the worm or gear. try turning the armature by hand to ensure there is no roughness in the drive.

Problems with the brush gear or the magnet orientation can cause this problem.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

What I do not understand is that when there is no load on the engine. IE just applying power to the wheels it seems to run ok in both directions now(Still runs better in reverse). This is with the body on and off. When it is put on the track it still runs great in reverse but really poorly forwards. It is as if it looses power going forwards when on the track. I will try all the suggestions and see what happens.

Here is the offending engine.....

Edited November 21, 2020 by cypherman

[stewartingram]

It could be something simple like worn brushes. Running in mainly one direction could wear a bias on them. I've serviced plenty with that problem.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

IT'S FIXED.....HURRAH!!!!!!!!!!.

The fix was the front bogie wheels were too big( Nice set of Alan Gibson wheels I think). The reason I did not notice they were too big was that I had not fitted them. They came with the chassis when I bought it. I was scratching my head and pulling my hair out trying to work out why it was running ok with power put on the wheels but was failing when going forwards on the track. It was only when I took the pictures I posted here and had a close look at them that I realised that they looked a bit tall. So I test ran the engine backwards and forwards. When the engine ran backwards the bogie was pulled to the front keeping it clear of the chassis. But going forwards the bogie and wheels were pushed back a fraction. That fraction was enough for the wheels to make contact with the chassis and cause an intermittent short and thus the poor jerky running. Then I ran it with the bogie off and it ran well. I have put a set of smaller plastic wheels on it until i can get a proper set of castle 2 rail wheels.

Thanks every one for the help and advice.

[Il Grifone]

The 'correct' wheels are only 10mm diameter with a rather deep flange. Dublo and early Wrenn are all black nylon. Later Wrenn have a metal tyre They look rather coarse, but blackening the wheel rim improves them immensely.

The Gibson wheels look a lot better. Taking a file to the back of the wheel arch should allow them sufficient clearance. It would depend on the radius she has to negotiate. The fine flanges might have problems with Dublo pointwork.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Il Grifone

[cypherman]

2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The 'correct' wheels are only 10mm diameter with a rather deep flange. Dublo and early Wrenn are all black nylon. Later Wrenn have a metal tyre They look rather coarse, but blackening the wheel rim improves them immensely.

The Gibson wheels look a lot better. Taking a file to the back of the wheel arch should allow them sufficient clearance. It would depend on the radius she has to negotiate. The fine flanges might have problems with Dublo pointwork.

Hi Il Grifone. The engine is the 2 rail version and will happily run on Peco code 100 rail. Not tried it on code 75 and suspect I never will. As for taking a file to the chassis I am not sure just how much metal I would have to remove. I suspect to be certain the wheels miss the chassis it might be quite a substantial amount.

[Il Grifone]

16 hours ago, cypherman said:

Hi Il Grifone. The engine is the 2 rail version and will happily run on Peco code 100 rail. Not tried it on code 75 and suspect I never will. As for taking a file to the chassis I am not sure just how much metal I would have to remove. I suspect to be certain the wheels miss the chassis it might be quite a substantial amount.

 

Hi,

I haven't got mine to hand to check and I've refitted original wheels, but I didn't have problems when I fitted 12mm wheels to the bogie. Possibly the Gibsons are the scale 3' 2" and that is enough to cause them to foul the frames. However there is a lot of slop in the bogie pivots. Taking this up or even extending the bearing holes upwards could solve the problem.

 

 7002 'Devizes Castle' is one of the Wrenn versions. The Dublo 2 rail Ringfield is 4075 'Cardiff Castle. Not that there is any great difference (except in price).

 

Incidently, a replacement drawbar brings the tender closer to the locomotive. They don't need to be that far apart even for Dublo curves. (Keep The original part they are quite sought after on eBay.

 

P.S. SWMBO is making noises about a new tumble drier. This appears to be more important than RMweb  so I couldn't proof read etc.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Il Grifone