60107 Royal Lancer

[Thebodger]

So here it begins, my first attempt at an O gauge locomotive, after purchasing a complete hatchette Flying Scotsman and upgrading a few parts construction started today.

 

My thanks to Doilum for all his assistance with research and parts recommendations.

 

I started with the front bogey as this was an easy sub assembly, all seems to have gone well however there is some friction in the axles which prevents them from freely turning. Is it sensible to file the bushes down to free this off or is there a better technique? 

[JeffP]

First off I'd  say you are using a LOT of solder. You will have problems later  if that cannot be corrected.

So....what flux are you using and what wattage iron?

 

As to the tightness of the axles, I usually solder them in place with a steel rod through both to align them.

What I'd do now in your case would be to run a parallel reamer of the correct size through both at once. 

Hth

 

PS posted in a hurry, sorry if it's  a bit brusque

[Thebodger]

I am using LA CO regular soldering flux, 145 degree solder and I have a 60w variable temperature soldering iron which at the  moment is set to 340 degrees C. My soldering is not the best therefore I tend to a lot where it will not be seen, the biggest problem I seem to get is that solder will not run freely on large parts, is there a trick to this?

 

The axles were solved using some 1200p wet and dry to clean up the axle leaving them running freely.

[doilum]

The Hachette brass isn't the easiest material to solder. The trick is to get it absolutely spotless immediately before soldering. When applying a decorative laminate you can be as quite aggressive with 240 grade wet and dry paper on faces that will not be seen again. I made much use of my RSU but almost every soldering task was a bit of a challenge compared to say kits from Jim McGowan, Mercian or Judith Edge. Patience wins in the end!

[Thebodger]

Day 2 showing progress the chassis cleaned up and soldered together, the axles turn very freely in the test box which is a good sign! 

 

Struggling to keep the solder to a minimum though

[Marshall5]

16 hours ago, Thebodger said:

 

 

Struggling to keep the solder to a minimum though

 

It's hard to be sure from a photo but I don't think that your soldering iron is supplying enough heat to make the solder flow into the joint.  The result is that the partly melted solder just sits on the surface and leaves a weak joint. Whilst the temperature of your iron could be well above the melting point of the solder it may not be able to supply the 'amount' of heat required as those frames are quite thick and will conduct the heat away from the iron's tip very quickly.  I mostly use a 40w iron with quite a thick copper chisel bit but sometimes resort to an 80w iron for heavy stuff like this.  A heavy copper bit will have a large 'reserve' of heat and a good liquid flux is essential.  Hope this helps.

Ray.

[markjj]

I believe the parts supplied in these kits are coated with some kind of Lacquer to enable them to be super glued together. I'm sure there have been other threads on the build of them. If it is coated you will need to clean this lacquer off to get the solder to flow properly. Try cleaning the parts with something like nail varnish remover before trying to solder them.

[doilum]

2 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

It's hard to be sure from a photo but I don't think that your soldering iron is supplying enough heat to make the solder flow into the joint.  The result is that the partly melted solder just sits on the surface and leaves a weak joint. Whilst the temperature of your iron could be well above the melting point of the solder it may not be able to supply the 'amount' of heat required as those frames are quite thick and will conduct the heat away from the iron's tip very quickly.  I mostly use a 40w iron with quite a thick copper chisel bit but sometimes resort to an 80w iron for heavy stuff like this.  A heavy copper bit will have a large 'reserve' of heat and a good liquid flux is essential.  Hope this helps.

Ray.

I was going to make a similar point before the day escaped me. A big simple iron might be the way to go . If in doubt turn it up to 11. The other advice might be with soldering technique. I am no expert and started much worse than your bogie assembly but have steadily improved thanks to lessons from more skillful modellers. My usual approach, after cleaning to heavenly standards, is to lightly tin the contact edge of one component. This is done in such a way as to not compromise the dry fit. If solder, flux and temperature are correct, a 2mm length of solder should run easily for 10 to 15mm  in each direction. This can be practiced on bits of scrap etch. You may want to compare the Hachette scrap with brass from another source.

Having double checked the cleanliness, more flux is applied to the other component before bringing them together. The tip of the iron needs to be clean hot and retinned and then patiently applied. I am not patient by nature hence my love of the RSU and if all else fails, an ancient 100W Weller. For the record, I use 145 solder and ( let's not start a war) plumbers flux paste. All work is thoroughly washed in CIF and soapy water immediately after a session.

[Thebodger]

So another session tonight saw there first test for my chassis, wheels fitted and tested running up and down my test piece of track, all promising so far, very free with no wobble in the wheels, which came as a pleasant surprise after the horror stories of the hatchette wheels!

The I ran into one issue however in that the nut on one of the crank pins could not be persuaded to fit despite spending longer on that one than the others combined, is there a recommend manufacturer for a replacement? 

Regards soldering an increase in temperature to 450 degrees helped no end and free flowing joints were easy to form however this has caused problems with rapid build up of detritus on the iron tip, this will reinforce the necessity of regular retinning and cleaning of the bit! No more quick dips in the flux for me!

Final orders going in this evening to laurie Griffin for the Nicole silver Slide bars, crossheads and drop links that im told are essential if planning to run regularly! Along with the Banjo dome and double chimney befitting 60107 in 1961 my chosed date!

Edited November 24, 2020 by Thebodger

[doilum]

St Frusquin followed the current trend towards 10 ba crankpin conversions. You would need a set of 10 ba taps ,( about  £10 from eBay) and half a dozen 10 ba set screws and washers.  The wheels will tap easily using the existing hole as a pilot, and the crankpin bushes are threaded by holding them in a pin vice . The tap is held rigid in the vice. You also need an additional pair of bushes for the centre wheels. The advantage of this method is that the invertered bushes replace the bulky nuts creating valuable clearance behind the slidebars.

[Daddyman]

10 hours ago, Thebodger said:

Regards soldering an increase in temperature to 450 degrees helped no end and free flowing joints were easy to form however this has caused problems with rapid build up of detritus on the iron tip, this will reinforce the necessity of regular retinning and cleaning of the bit! No more quick dips in the flux for me!

 

I was going to suggest increasing the temperature - it was clear from the photos that the solder hadn't melted. As you say, though, when soldering at 400 or above, the tip gets cruddy quite quickly. Trick is to turn the iron off as often as possible when you're not using it, then use a suede brush to flick crud off once the iron warms up again. 

You don't mention the make of your iron, or the size of the bit; can you get larger replacement bits? These will be more effective on large areas of brass.  

[Barclay]

Hi I use 145 and 188 solder and find that 400 works so much better than 300. Yes the bit will turn black quite quickly, and I can recommend the tip cleaner sold by Carr's - just dip it in (hot) and it comes out nice and shiny again!

[doilum]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I was going to suggest increasing the temperature - it was clear from the photos that the solder hadn't melted. As you say, though, when soldering at 400 or above, the tip gets cruddy quite quickly. Trick is to turn the iron off as often as possible when you're not using it, then use a suede brush to flick crud off once the iron warms up again. 

You don't mention the make of your iron, or the size of the bit; can you get larger replacement bits? These will be more effective on large areas of brass.  

A wipe on a damp sponge ( or spit on a kitchen towel) keeps the bit clean. You can buy fancy devices for this but there are better things to spend your money on!

[Daddyman]

1 hour ago, doilum said:

A wipe on a damp sponge ( or spit on a kitchen towel) keeps the bit clean. 

I've never found this to work - hence the suggestion of the suede brush. 

[doilum]

1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

I've never found this to work - hence the suggestion of the suede brush. 

To be honest, I haven't  got the sponge to work either. The " dampened" kitchen towel works every time!

Edited November 25, 2020 by doilum
Predictive text error

[Thebodger]

Morning all

 

Last night saw more progress with the rear chassis assembled an added to the loco.

450 degrees seems to do the trick, in my inexperienced view the soldering looks ok now!

As my attention begins to swing toward the start of the tender I think that rather than scratch building from the chassis up I will attempt to kit bash the kit tender into a GNR coal rail tender. Plans from the Internet seem to indicate that the outside dimensions are within a wisker so I think I can live with that. 

As ever tips and advice are appreciated!

[doilum]

55 minutes ago, Thebodger said:

Morning all

 

Last night saw more progress with the rear chassis assembled an added to the loco.

450 degrees seems to do the trick, in my inexperienced view the soldering looks ok now!

As my attention begins to swing toward the start of the tender I think that rather than scratch building from the chassis up I will attempt to kit bash the kit tender into a GNR coal rail tender. Plans from the Internet seem to indicate that the outside dimensions are within a wisker so I think I can live with that. 

As ever tips and advice are appreciated!

Looking much better if still a tad on the generous side.

With foot steps try soldering from the under side. This will make cleaning up much easier. The good thing about this kit is that if you really mess up spares are easily found from eBay.

Edited November 27, 2020 by doilum
Additional information

[JeffP]

Why not build your tender as designed, and sell it on eBay, or sell the parts, and use the funds to purchase a Finney 7 GNR coal rail tender?

They are excellent.

And so much easier than trying to hack a corridor tender into one.

[doilum]

9 hours ago, JeffP said:

Why not build your tender as designed, and sell it on eBay, or sell the parts, and use the funds to purchase a Finney 7 GNR coal rail tender?

They are excellent.

And so much easier than trying to hack a corridor tender into one.

Because the Finney 7 example will work out north of £250 ? It will need the special Slater's axles and wheels to complete. The conversion for St Frusquin left all the tender body parts untouched in case I messed up or got the opportunity to build another A4.

[Thebodger]

The steps there folded in from the bottom so I had to solder the inside as they were not a separate part, I made good use of that solder however as i was able to attach the additional step detail using them!

 

Regards the tender exactly as doilum said I don't want to fork out for a complete new tender when with a little creativity I hope i can make a reasonably accurate replica! particularly when, visually at least, the chassis and running gear are virtually identical!  

[Thebodger]

If I could title a post then: 'whats that smell?' Would work well just here! Springs going well apart from a small incident with my desk and an overheated spring....

I'm not sure if now is the time to test fit my motor but the original edition 104 seems a little late.... so I was thinking now would be a good time in case my chassis needs tweeking. I bought a slater 1:30 motor which I was advised would be just the ticket for this loco the only point of confusion i have is how do I mount it? 

[doilum]

St Frusquin used a similar JH set up on the middle axle with the motor behind the gearbox. The motor is anchored to the plate above the rear axle using a plastic cable tie via a pair of strategically drilled holes.

[Thebodger]

More progress today, a footplate and a tender chassis making it look like a lot has been done and hiding the myriad of small parts that I'm in the process of adding! 

The bad new I have run into is that all sources I can think of are sold out of 0.5mm false rivets for my boiler top which unless someone can suggest source I have not tried I will be forced to use the dreaded wire technique which so many build logs have managed to avoid!

 

Having printed out plans for the tender I have decided to scratch build the body of the tender from brass which is now en route to me, I have a good variety of tools at my disposal but little experience... what would those who have scratch built with brass before recommend for cutting out my parts? 

 

Thanks again for all your help and advice

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Thebodger

[doilum]

St Frusquin used very small dress making pins with each head slightly filed down. The pins were pushed in using a soldering iron. I would give myself a B minus for the final outcome and doing it again might look for those American decorative rivets. This is not going to stop the job and there is a good case for adding them after you have located the period correct dome and chimney.

[Daddyman]

11 hours ago, Thebodger said:

what would those who have scratch built with brass before recommend for cutting out my parts? 

Stanley knife for 15 thou, smaller craft knife OK for 10 thou. But knives every time - fret saws are evil.