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60107 Royal Lancer


Thebodger
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11 hours ago, Thebodger said:

Having printed out plans for the tender I have decided to scratch build the body of the tender from brass which is now en route to me, I have a good variety of tools at my disposal but little experience... what would those who have scratch built with brass before recommend for cutting out my parts? 

 

 

I would cut out basic rectangles using 'score and snap' with a scriber and steel rule. Several passes both sides and then bend it back and forth until it goes. For trickier bits a piercing saw is, well, I don't consider them evil, I rather like using them but buy a lot of blades as they break with depressing regularity. And don't use one in the presence of a child because every time you break a blade you will swear, it' just the law! I use a 5/0 blade for 10 and 15 thou brass.

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Assuming the brass comes in the usual 10x 4" sheet first step is a simple long cut that will give the necessary height for the sides (just). The full height is achieved by soldering the top valance to the outside. The GN style tender sides are curved at both ends. The 10" length allows you to start at the front end with a generous 10mm overhang ( trimmed off when all is complete). This can be tried in position to confirm the rear bending point leaving the surplus for the time being. Once both sides are ready the rear section can be trimmed to the best joint possible in the middle. This can be reinforced with a strip on the inside and made perfect by lead loading with solder. When deciding the width of the tender body remember to leave the small valance around the base. Good photos are a real help. 

To form the curved corners I used a 4" nail. The brass sheet was clamped to an off cut of 18mm ply sandwiched by a small piece of 6mm ply carefully cut dead square. The nail was positioned over the bend line and the ply moved to keep it square.  It was then easy to fold the brass into place using set squares to check progress. The time spent faffing with clamps and nails was offset by a a simple first time success. Don't forget the other side is a mirror image!

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Apart from more longwinded but visually unimpressive work on the chassis my attention turned to the boiler. 

Step one was to replace the boiler band where the dome was originally to sit, this was done with modellers putty that was filed smooth when dry, its now smooth to the touch though  usually unappealing however I think the simple cure to this will be paint!20201202_203044.jpg.0402722d02069522e61438ffa2ab127b.jpg

 

After doing a bit of research I found this picture of flying scotsman after restoration.Screenshot_20201202-214443_Google.jpg.441f55fbfb473c33f5296696330f35c2.jpg

 

For me the best way to simulate the rivet heads shown here was using the brass wire provided by hatchette as any replica rivets would seem rather clunky in comparison to the above therefore the long winded process has begun, which unfortunately means back to the glue!

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Finally as I hadn't played with my soldering iron enough I began construction of the rear bogey.20201202_220039.jpg.0bd2ea644a5ae6bab3574db3120b0d92.jpg

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Good and bad today, a reasonable looking boiler to the Good but a little bit stuck to the bad. I have started trying to fit the cylinders to the chassis as shown in the image however try as I might I cannot get either of the bolts that should fill these holes to engage! Therefore I am wondering does this part need to be removable or can I simply get out the soldering iron? If not does anyone have tips for starting these m2 bolts? 20201203_202804.jpg.e06e16abe4261f20125d38a8ebcbd630.jpg20201203_202234.jpg.414951a8332e6cc9bb1bffbbcdaf5da0.jpg

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Make them detachable. Reverse the instructions for the mounting bolt through the frame sides and araldite the bolt from the inside of the cylinder as, once the wrapper is on, you cannot access it. This way the nut is inside the frames and can be removed later.

This is one kit where the instructions need to be read, assessed and usually modified. They never originally intended this to be a working model never mind one capable of layout service. 

St Frusquin has the cylinders and motion as an independent removable item. Humbly suggest that next step should be the soldering up of all the rods and motion carefully keeping the completed items in two boxes labelled left and right. The cylinder covers can be added much later when everything is whizzing round satisfactorily. Reading my account of the St Frusquin build will give advance notice of some of the challenges ahead.

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2 hours ago, doilum said:

Make them detachable. Reverse the instructions for the mounting bolt through the frame sides and araldite the bolt from the inside of the cylinder as, once the wrapper is on, you cannot access it. This way the nut is inside the frames and can be removed later.

This is one kit where the instructions need to be read, assessed and usually modified. They never originally intended this to be a working model never mind one capable of layout service. 

St Frusquin has the cylinders and motion as an independent removable item. Humbly suggest that next step should be the soldering up of all the rods and motion carefully keeping the completed items in two boxes labelled left and right. The cylinder covers can be added much later when everything is whizzing round satisfactorily. Reading my account of the St Frusquin build will give advance notice of some of the challenges ahead.

 

So do I understand you correctly that you mean to turn the chassis upside down and work the bolt through from underneath, then fill those holes with Arldite? 

 

That was essentially the plan I had concocted but I though I needed to add these parts for some of the motion parts to seat into hence I was doing these now. I also was thinking to add the break gear first before tackling the motion? Or am I better to leave this until later?

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1 hour ago, Thebodger said:

 

 

So do I understand you correctly that you mean to turn the chassis upside down and work the bolt through from underneath, then fill those holes with Arldite? 

 

That was essentially the plan I had concocted but I though I needed to add these parts for some of the motion parts to seat into hence I was doing these now. I also was thinking to add the break gear first before tackling the motion? Or am I better to leave this until later?

Definitely motion first.

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Following your advice I have started to look at mounting motors, the neatest solution seems to me to be to mount it this way, is there a good reason that I shouldn't do this?20201204_204857.jpg.80957cf919723748163868a3f4d49a98.jpg

 

I am aware that this obstructs the location of one of the plunger pick ups however I could drill new holes and mount them either here1607122796964968168279258649439.jpg.d65ed4209a6491cdc446701381587007.jpg

 

Or here16071228613954673527708902454688.jpg.4331ef1296d53591e1be384859f85d7c.jpg

 

The motor can then be anchored in place with this strip of scrap brass i have cut down for the purpose. I intend to add slots to this bar to prevent the motor from moving sideways. The advantage of mounting this way seems to be that all the motor gears can be accessed from below allowing easy lubrication and the boiler will not need to be adjusted to allow it to fit. 20201204_225141.jpg.c1f6cf0f7fb25b36964c1d309305445d.jpg

 

Also worked on the cab a little finally completing magazine 1!

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Shouldn't worry too much about completing each issue. Cab looks OK but the door openings need raising by a few millimetres. This was a pre war modification that followed the introduction of the corridor tenders to make the cab less draughty. If you are looking for cab related tasks to stave off the evil task of motion building, you can start thinking about the conversion to LHD. The plastic firebox back is the one to use and you will need to scratch build the raised cab floor sections ( I used Plastikard) as mirror images of the cast white metal ones. It is easier to scratch build new seats than modify the ones supplied. I would leave all these sub assemblies loose until final painting. This is a good time to solder in the cab handrail knobs ( after modifying the doorway). You may need to carefully drill out each knob with a 0.7mm drill ( much easier held in a pin vice rather than trying to do it in situ later) or, order new ones from Eileen.

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Thank you for the tips once again! I decided to work the motion as you recommended, that is until I realised I was short of tools which are now on order, and having motorised the driving wheels I realised the slop was worse than I had thought so new driving wheels on the way! To the plus my motor mount is successful holding the motor firmly in place whilst still easily removable once the axle is pulled out. I therefore spent time adjusting the footplate and chassis to fit together comfortably.20201206_220402.jpg.c877dd8def91990a27a34c97aadc4074.jpg

 

I then turned my attention to the tender completeting the brake gear and then starting on the gnr style body. 20201206_211733.jpg.e2f58639868f9a212029bc1352fdd467.jpg

 

Progress so far is good (I think) bendd will be made by hammering a nail into a flat sheet of ply then bending around this. Parts are prepared to do this tomorrow!20201206_220345.jpg.ec5f8b9965cd8e7ed3c1c1a12f25dd1f.jpg

 

My only question is how should I go about creating the compound bend under the coal rail on the top plate?

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I suspected that the wheels might prove problematic, I got away with a set of Slater's axles carefully dressed to fit. When putting an order into Slater's don't forget the pick ups and a spare set of crankpin bushes ( not needed if you replace the wheels as well.)

The folding of the tender sides can be done in a vice using the nail laid flat on top of the jaws. It might be worth practicing with some scrap etch to establish how much the fold line needs to be above the jaws. Use a set square to check before folding, this is a one shot bend!

The flare at the top of the tender side can be done by soldering a strip of brass to the outside. There should in fact be a second layer on top of that but I didn't notice until it was done and decided to leave it as it was. This extra strip extends above the height of the main  tender side and creates a lip to sit the tender top on. Good close up photos are helpful and a used copy of Yeadon's Registrar can be found on Amazon at sensible cost.

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I decided to have a go at making my own. 60 thou Plastikard sat on a bit of thin shim brass with rivets in the corners. I was happy enough with the result to keep them. I think Ragstone do them.

Edited by doilum
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3 hours ago, doilum said:

I decided to have a go at making my own. 60 thou Plastikard sat on a bit of thin shim brass with rivets in the corners. I was happy enough with the result to keep them. I think Ragstone do them.

I saw that on your St Frusquin thread, but having little time of my own as a 24/7 carer, looked at Ragstone first, but couldn't find any, so have ordered from JPL.

But thanks anyway.

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2 hours ago, JeffP said:

I saw that on your St Frusquin thread, but having little time of my own as a 24/7 carer, looked at Ragstone first, but couldn't find any, so have ordered from JPL.

But thanks anyway.

I think that the total time spent was about 20 minutes including a discarded first attempt. Sometimes when time is precious or unpredictable it is useful to have a list of short " to do" tasks that can be dropped and resumed later if duty calls.

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A week since the last update but good progress I think! I now have something that looks a bit like a tender body and have managed to cut some 1.3mm strips off my sheet to build the coal rails with all in all I think a success! As ever comments welcome 20201212_220102.jpg.87a2ac7c844e8df48c4a02d9bb2d1f33.jpg20201212_220046.jpg.9438ab58d3c036778cb9e954b9aa0c66.jpg20201212_220052.jpg.3b876a3a8f5889db8cb37e382e47e0af.jpg20201212_220041.jpg.608d6a74bf3ffb0919c087b4dd8980f1.jpg

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Really looking good, the soldering skills are coming on a treat! If you don't have a Dremel it might make a useful Christmas present. It will make cleaning those internal seams much easier. Next task is to fabricate the coal area. You could try and adapt the asymetric corridor tender item but it is easier to use it as a pattern to cut and fold a new one. You will also need to source some 1mm brass wire for the coal rails that comes in 18" lengths.

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Two questions, if I may.

First off, the cab windows? What's wrong with them as supplied, and how is it put right?

Second, raising the height of the rest of the cab sides round the doorway?

How did anyone do that? Scrap etch cut to size, maybe, but that would mean it being fixed with just a butt joint?

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2 hours ago, JeffP said:

Two questions, if I may.

First off, the cab windows? What's wrong with them as supplied, and how is it put right?

Second, raising the height of the rest of the cab sides round the doorway?

How did anyone do that? Scrap etch cut to size, maybe, but that would mean it being fixed with just a butt joint?

Can't remember what the window issue was but there are references in the contemporary build threads. I used the etch as the inner frame and glued it to the clear acrylic provided. This was then glued with a touch of contact adhesive after all the painting was finished.

The door opening is as you described but with a little shim brass reinforcing from the rear. Once cleaned up with the Dremel noone would guess. If I recall correctly the first issue included a spare cab side to practice on. Definitely worth the effort and easily within the skill set of anyone who has got this far already!

Edited by doilum
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I can't find any build threads other than one on here, and it's not clear to me what he's actually done.

He mentions filing the windows, but I can't see what he's changed for the life of me.

Are there any builds on the old site and can I get to them?

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