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Severn Valley : Passenger Traffic 1958-61


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I am appealing for any help with the above subject please.

 

I am researching passenger traffic on the Severn Valley  in the late 1950s through to the lines transfer to the LM region in 1963. Unfortunately the couple of publications l have on the line have only a few photos, and those that they have focus more on the locomotive than its stock. However there are a couple that support the view that by the late 1950s Collett stock had been cascaded down to secondary duties. It seems the through Shrewsbury - Worcester services were a mixture of Collett mixed later with Hawksworth stock, unfortunately l can not find any information as to the make up of this service, eg 4 or 5 coach consist, BSK CK SO BSK etc ?  The Bridgenorth- Hartlebury services appear to have been corridor or suburban stock, but once again the views l have do not allow me to identify the stock. 

 

I have the same problem with local working too. It is seems  "B" sets were not often used on local services. The only photo l found  of a "B" set was a  Shrewsbury to Bewdley working  by a BR standard 3MT tank o the 30th March 1959. (I can't discern if it was a  lined Green example due to the ample coating of grime!)  Did these tanks often work through to Bewdley at this date? Its the only example l ve found prior to transfer to the LM region.

As for other local workings, l can not identify what the suburban stock was, although it does look possibly Midland in origin?. There are plenty of photos taken after the transfer of the line to the LM region, theses show LM stock working over the length of the line, before that date it appears LM stock  mainly worked the Shrewsbury- Bridgenorth section ?

 

As a quick aside, does anyone know when the BR "Bubble Cars" started being used on the line? The earliest l ve been able to find dates around 1961, which l believe was when the GWR rail cars started to be withdrawn? 

 

 

If anyone can shed light on the above, or any info on loco/stock working at this date etc, it would be of great help

 

Regards

 

Bob C

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Bob, 

I would contact Kidderminster Railway museum. They have numerous photos of the railway pre 63 (when the railway closed).

 

The mixture of locos and rolling stock is varied. There was also the Shrewsbury - Bridgnorth service which yielded LMS tanks such as the 2300, fairburn and Std 4 tanks. 

 

82xxx tanks, 51xx tanks, 57xx panniers, 63xx moguls up to Alveley colliery. An 8f is recorded to have reach Alveley as well. From memory, through photos, most trains had a van at one end which tended to be a fish van. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, SVR C & W said:

Bob, 

I would contact Kidderminster Railway museum. They have numerous photos of the railway pre 63 (when the railway closed).

 

The mixture of locos and rolling stock is varied. There was also the Shrewsbury - Bridgnorth service which yielded LMS tanks such as the 2300, fairburn and Std 4 tanks. 

 

82xxx tanks, 51xx tanks, 57xx panniers, 63xx moguls up to Alveley colliery. An 8f is recorded to have reach Alveley as well. From memory, through photos, most trains had a van at one end which tended to be a fish van. 

 

 

Thank you for this information, interesting to hear about the Fowler 2300s and Fairburns, never seen or heard of them before. Plus the 8F is interesting too. Great idea to contact Kidderminster, silly me.

 

Thanks again 

Bob C

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I would agree on contacting the museum as it holds information on prior to 1968. The curator David Postle was to station master at Highley for quite a time. 

 

On the rolling stock you can also add. 

 

Stanier 2-6-2 3p  which ran on the line. Most photos I have seen are of 3 coach sets normally,.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Bulleidnutter said:

I also forgot Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks as well.

 

Am l right in thinking that the BR standard types, with the exception o the 3MT were late comers, only appearing in numbers after the Regional Boundary change?

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All Dad's SVR photos are from the preservation era. These are of Shrewsbury in the early 60s, if they are of any interest. Like most railway photographers, Dad was more interested in the locos rather than what they were pulling, so there ain't many carriages to be seen. I am curious about the Collett 0-6-0, as the group on the platform don't seem like ordinary passengers. Could it have been a special? Without a lengthy trawl through Dad's spotting log I don't have the date. I have worked out that it is Shrewsbury from the pinnacles (or are they chimneys) in the background.

BR 4 6 2 70024 Vulcan Shrewsbury 20 4 1960.jpg

 

GWR 4 6 0 7818 Granville Manor Shrewsbury 20 4 1960 extended.jpg

GWR Collet 0-6-0 3203 at Shrewsbury.jpg

LMSR 2 6 4T 42388 Shrewsbury 20 4 1960.jpg

Edited by phil_sutters
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2 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

All Dad's SVR photos are from the preservation era. These are of Shrewsbury in the early 60s, if they are of anyinterest. Like most railway photographers, Dad was more interested in the locos rather than what they were pulling, so there ain't many carriages to be seen.

BR 4 6 2 70024 Vulcan Shrewsbury 20 4 1960.jpg

GWR 2 8 0 3829 Shrewsbury 20 4 1960.jpg

GWR 4 6 0 7818 Granville Manor Shrewsbury 20 4 1960 extended.jpg

GWR Collet 0-6-0 3203 at Shrewsbury.jpg

LMSR 2 6 4T 42388 Shrewsbury 20 4 1960.jpg

 

 

Good evening Phil

 

Many thanks for taking the time to upload these photos, whilst not SVR, they are never the less most interesting.

 

 

Cheers

 

Bob C

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There a few books out there with past and present photos in detailing the line. I wish I could ask my late grandfather as he lived in Linley station and was the district civil engineer as well.

 

Keep searching through the known photo sites like flickr. I've also found some on ebay as well. 

 

2251 and 45xx were also quite common on the railway. 

 

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1 hour ago, SVR C & W said:

There a few books out there with past and present photos in detailing the line. I wish I could ask my late grandfather as he lived in Linley station and was the district civil engineer as well.

 

Keep searching through the known photo sites like flickr. I've also found some on ebay as well. 

 

2251 and 45xx were also quite common on the railway. 

 

Thank you SVR, i ve put some time aside this afternoon, to look at Flickr, which is never a chore!.

I think l have identified the common classes of locos that worked the line, although as already mentioned there is always a surprise or two! The sticking point for me is the coach working etc, so l will be writing to Kidderminster today as well

 

Thanks once again

 

Bob C

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On 22/11/2020 at 10:23, Blobrick said:

As a quick aside, does anyone know when the BR "Bubble Cars" started being used on the line? The earliest l ve been able to find dates around 1961, which l believe was when the GWR rail cars started to be withdrawn? 

 

Regards

 

Bob C

 

I don't know the answer to this question but W55012 and W55018 were, according to the info on railcar.co.uk, transferred from the London Division to Tyseley at the beginning of 1961 (presumably as a result of receipt of class 121 units) - they were joined by W55017, 19 from Laira from autumn 1962 and for a short time W55013 also. Tyseley already had W55002-10 from new,

 

So is it possible the use of the bubble cars was extended when additional units were transferred in?

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3 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

 

I don't know the answer to this question but W55012 and W55018 were, according to the info on railcar.co.uk, transferred from the London Division to Tyseley at the beginning of 1961 (presumably as a result of receipt of class 121 units) - they were joined by W55017, 19 from Laira from autumn 1962 and for a short time W55013 also. Tyseley already had W55002-10 from new,

 

So is it possible the use of the bubble cars was extended when additional units were transferred in?

 

Fantastic, thank you for confirming the dates for the bubble cars, that's another piece of the puzzle solved!

Just the coaching stock to confirm now.

 

Many thanks MidlandRed

 

Bob C

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There is a photo of a bubble car at Linley on the disused stations website. 

 

I would discount Mark 1s as these would be on the mainline services. 2 notable events happened, which were retold to me by my grandfather was the appearance of a Castle and a 9F on troop trains to Bridgnorth. Questions were asked in the office the next morning as to how. The railway north of Bridgnorth had less structures so could accommodate larger locos. The troop trains could be absolutely any stock, much like football and seaside specials. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgnorth-Railway-Station-Photo-Eardington-Linley-Highley-to-Coalport-3-/252359871158

 

Shows an AEC railcar passing another set in P1. The rear coach is a Hawksworth brake judging from the lack of toilet tank at the northen end. The coach closest is a composite of some description. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eardington-Railway-Station-Photo-Bridgnorth-Hampton-Loade-Highley-Line-4/262710637125?hash=item3d2ac63245:g:Xn0AAOSwMVdYIejr

 

57xx at Eardington shows a 3 car set with a Syphon on the back. It looks like a Hawksworth BCK, a Collet CK Dia E 162 similar to our own 7284 and another Hawksworth but I can't quite make out whether it is a brake or not.

 

Others appear. If you can find out what coaches were around Shrewsbury/ Worcester and Stourbridge. That would give a half decent start for branch line trains.

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1 hour ago, Bulleidnutter said:

There is a photo of a bubble car at Linley on the disused stations website. 

 

I would discount Mark 1s as these would be on the mainline services. 2 notable events happened, which were retold to me by my grandfather was the appearance of a Castle and a 9F on troop trains to Bridgnorth. Questions were asked in the office the next morning as to how. The railway north of Bridgnorth had less structures so could accommodate larger locos. The troop trains could be absolutely any stock, much like football and seaside specials. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgnorth-Railway-Station-Photo-Eardington-Linley-Highley-to-Coalport-3-/252359871158

 

Shows an AEC railcar passing another set in P1. The rear coach is a Hawksworth brake judging from the lack of toilet tank at the northen end. The coach closest is a composite of some description. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Eardington-Railway-Station-Photo-Bridgnorth-Hampton-Loade-Highley-Line-4/262710637125?hash=item3d2ac63245:g:Xn0AAOSwMVdYIejr

 

57xx at Eardington shows a 3 car set with a Syphon on the back. It looks like a Hawksworth BCK, a Collet CK Dia E 162 similar to our own 7284 and another Hawksworth but I can't quite make out whether it is a brake or not.

 

Others appear. If you can find out what coaches were around Shrewsbury/ Worcester and Stourbridge. That would give a half decent start for branch line trains.

Hi Bulleidnutter

 

Thanks for the links to the photos. I have seen both of them before, but as the coaching stock is mainly Hawksworth, l suspect that they are a little later than my target dates. Shame really as l have a cupboard full of Hornby Hawksworks in C/C and Maroon liveries. From what l ve found, the Hawksworth stock did not start to cascade on to secondary duties until around 1959/60, unless someone can correct me (Please!) so probably not many examples running in my time frame. 

I have found one photo on a google search. which shows a 55xx iapproaching Hampton Load, in Black livery hauling what looks to be Collett stock, but its a bit grainy and l m not sure what type of Collett stock its hauling. 

Hampton_Loade_station 1951.jpg

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I ve just checked the date on the photo, its 1951. I had though that the stock was corridor ,believing the livery to be Crimson and Cream. However if its 1951 as dated, the stock could be suburban vehicles still in GWR livery?

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2 hours ago, Bulleidnutter said:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bridgnorth-Railway-Station-Photo-Eardington-Linley-Highley-to-Coalport-3-/252359871158

 

Shows an AEC railcar passing another set in P1. The rear coach is a Hawksworth brake judging from the lack of toilet tank at the northen end. The coach closest is a composite of some description. 

 

Look how much freight there is in the yard!

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12 hours ago, Blobrick said:

I ve just checked the date on the photo, its 1951. I had though that the stock was corridor ,believing the livery to be Crimson and Cream. However if its 1951 as dated, the stock could be suburban vehicles still in GWR livery?

Every chance the stock is still in Chocolate and cream with possibly BR numbers but cant be certain. 

It does look like corridor stock but as to diagram and who built them. Gwr coaches are a bit alien to me other than the ones I maintain at kidderminster.

 

The third coach looks like a later Collett in the same design as ours at Kidder. The 1st coach looks like an early Collett bow end all 3rd. The bush blocks the 2nd coach but it looks like a CK of some sort as you can make out a large panel between the bushes. You cant make out the 4th but it has element of being a Hawksworth brake. 

Edited by Bulleidnutter
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1 hour ago, Bulleidnutter said:

Every chance the stock is still in Chocolate and cream with possibly BR numbers but cant be certain. 

It does look like corridor stock but as to diagram and who built them. Gwr coaches are a bit alien to me other than the ones I maintain at kidderminster.

 

The third coach looks like a later Collett in the same design as ours at Kidder. The 1st coach looks like an early Collett bow end all 3rd. The bush blocks the 2nd coach but it looks like a CK of some sort as you can make out a large panel between the bushes. You cant make out the 4th but it has element of being a Hawksworth brake. 

Hi there Bulleidnutter

 

Thank you so much for the id on the coaches, I had hoped that they were possibly Collett stock. I am very interested on the Brake bring up the rear, as I would have thought that Hawksworth stock was still pretty much front line in the early 50s, only being cascaded down when more BR Mk1s became available.

Having said that, l understand that rakes were made up to a specific  diagram for the service they were intended to work, and as such if the current 3rd brake, for example, required attention, an alternate vehicle was sourced from a pool of spare stock, so l suspect as an exception, a fairly new coach could end up being marshalled with older vehicles?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Bob C

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You may also find this blog (and book) of interest? It covers the Worcester based single car (initially GWR units)  duties and also mentions the Stourbridge Junction ones in passing.

 

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/blog/author-guest-post-steve-bartlett/__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!Wj9-gtV01FbBj6P8YeovUGJAzTHhbUzHq-gTaQp0ir0bTDAxVtdsJfoFkAQPlvg$

 

Now I'm guessing someone may have access to the autumn/winter 1962 carriage working diagrams which would cover the Tyseley (Worcester, Stourbridge Junction, Leamington) single units which might give more detail.

 

In terms of individual cars, I have a book (Heyday of the DMU) with a superb picture of set 103 (most likely W55005) at Ironbridge and Broseley - with a porter wheeling a trolley of parcels to it - several days before closure in 1963 - with Hartlebury on the blind. The photo at Linley on the disused station website may well be the same unit although the set number in the windscreen can't be read - it's around the same date as the photo of W55005. There are also photos of 55009 working from Worcester on the RCTS site, and W55012 at an unknown location but with Wellington on the blind on railcar.co.uk. This suggests a random selection of Tyseley cars were outbased at Worcester.

 

I'm reminded that the section between Hartlebury and Bewdley was operated by class 122 bubble cars until closure in 1970 - some of the units were in various versions of clue livery at that stage.

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This photo shows four of five ex-GWR single railcars stored at Worcester on 2.11.1962. I don't know which the missing one was. It may be the last W24W Dad has recorded them in his spotting logs as W23W, W32W, W26W, W20W and W24W. He notes that the four in the photo all had different liveries.

Four GWR diesel railcars Worcester 11 1962.jpg

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9 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

This photo shows four of five ex-GWR single railcars stored at Worcester on 2.11.1962. I don't know which the missing one was. It may be the last W24W Dad has recorded them in his spotting logs as W23W, W32W, W26W, W20W and W24W. He notes that the four in the photo all had different liveries.

Four GWR diesel railcars Worcester 11 1962.jpg

Good morning Phil

 

Thank you for sharing these photos with us, its a fantastic to see photos of the real railway, as it was in its every day form. These are the photos that should be in books

 

Cheers

 

Bob C

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On 23/11/2020 at 21:57, Blobrick said:

Hi Bulleidnutter

 

Thanks for the links to the photos. I have seen both of them before, but as the coaching stock is mainly Hawksworth, l suspect that they are a little later than my target dates. Shame really as l have a cupboard full of Hornby Hawksworks in C/C and Maroon liveries. From what l ve found, the Hawksworth stock did not start to cascade on to secondary duties until around 1959/60, unless someone can correct me (Please!) so probably not many examples running in my time frame. 

I have found one photo on a google search. which shows a 55xx iapproaching Hampton Load, in Black livery hauling what looks to be Collett stock, but its a bit grainy and l m not sure what type of Collett stock its hauling. 

Hampton_Loade_station 1951.jpg

Sadly the tall home signal is long gone, that would have made sighting in the Up direction so much easier than crawling round the corner to see the homes now, especially at night, lol

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On 23/11/2020 at 22:05, Blobrick said:

I ve just checked the date on the photo, its 1951. I had though that the stock was corridor ,believing the livery to be Crimson and Cream. However if its 1951 as dated, the stock could be suburban vehicles still in GWR livery?

If this was corridor stock in B.R. 'Blood & Custard' then there would be a 4?" strip of crimson below the cantrail which the photo shows to be absent.  I think that the next contributor was correct in his suggestion that the carriages are still in GWR livery.

Ray.

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16 minutes ago, Marshall5 said:

If this was corridor stock in B.R. 'Blood & Custard' then there would be a 4?" strip of crimson below the cantrail which the photo shows to be absent.  I think that the next contributor was correct in his suggestion that the carriages are still in GWR livery.

Ray.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions, re the coaching stock livery, as you ve no doubt read, the consensus is that the coaches in question are thought to be  primarily Collett stock with a possible Hawksworth brake bringing up the rear?

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