w124bob Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I'm just about to start soldering up Peco electrofrog points (as per the instructions)and adding droppers, iron is a brand new Antex 25w with a fine point tip and was wondering if there are any benefits to using solder paste. It looks to me easier but I'm just cack handed and clumsey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2020 Solder paste is a right pain to get the flux off afterwards. It will corrode in time and discolour the track and any ballast. Andi 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Use regular 60/40 solder (not lead free!) and Rosin flux for electrical joints. John 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, w124bob said: I'm just about to start soldering up Peco electrofrog points (as per the instructions)and adding droppers, iron is a brand new Antex 25w with a fine point tip and was wondering if there are any benefits to using solder paste. It looks to me easier but I'm just cack handed and clumsey! Time to do some practice soldering to build up your skill level. Find some suitable scrap stuff and have a go on that first, to get the feel of it. I use standard tin/lead (60/40) multicore solder which is designed for electrical work such as soldering wires. Edited November 24, 2020 by melmerby 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff park Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Use a cored solder, not lead free, that is a real pain. Remember melt the solder at the joint, not on the iron away from the joint. If you do it away from the joint you have lost the flux, it comes off as smoke. Metal to be soldered, solder, and iron all must come together at once. If the metal to be soldered is large it may be worth preheating. Just spotted brossard's reply, agree 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Cored solder is fine I guess. Cliff points out the issue with it - once used the flux is gone and if the joint has to be redone it must be refluxed. I much prefer to use separate Rosin flux, applied to the wire and the work with a toothpick or some such. Tin the wire and work with 60/40. It is then just a matter of placing them together and touching the iron to them. The joint should make right away if everything is clean and the iron is in good shape (a blackened tip is no good at all). Don't linger with the iron close to plastic. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2020 1 hour ago, brossard said: Cored solder is fine I guess. Cliff points out the issue with it - once used the flux is gone and if the joint has to be redone it must be refluxed. I much prefer to use separate Rosin flux, applied to the wire and the work with a toothpick or some such. Tin the wire and work with 60/40. It is then just a matter of placing them together and touching the iron to them. The joint should make right away if everything is clean and the iron is in good shape (a blackened tip is no good at all). Don't linger with the iron close to plastic. John So why is/was it the standard way for soldering electronics? I'm sorry but that's just twaddle. Once both surfaces have been tinned by the previous soldering they don't need any more flux. I have been soldering for 60 years and have never had a problem with cored solder. It was the only solder used at work for electrical joints from the 60's through to my retirement. BTW to further answer the OPs question, solder paste was never designed for soldering wire to rail or whatever. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I think Cliff was saying don't to try to carry the solder to the joint on the soldering iron. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 I asked the question because I came across this product https://www.modeltech.uk/product-page/ho-oo-protrack-rail-aligner-standard if you click the user manual link, and watch his Youtube demo, he uses solder paste. It was something I'd never even heard of before, hence my question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 33 minutes ago, w124bob said: I asked the question because I came across this product https://www.modeltech.uk/product-page/ho-oo-protrack-rail-aligner-standard if you click the user manual link, and watch his Youtube demo, he uses solder paste. It was something I'd never even heard of before, hence my question. That seems to be no different technique to using copperclad to build track. I wonder how many, that build their own track, would use solder paste? If you think you would be making better joints using paste, by all means try it. See how you get on. It is, from what I can see, much more expensive than standard multicore solder. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 4 hours ago, melmerby said: That seems to be no different technique to using copperclad to build track. I wonder how many, that build their own track, would use solder paste? The current "fashion" in soldered track is solder-balls. A pre-measured quantity on every joint. Faster than the old method of cutting slivers from a length of multi-core with a knife. Paste is expensive stuff. It will work, but I'm not sure of the benefits for attaching wires to rail. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 On the balance of advice here I'm going for the tried and tested, after all I have all the traditional solder and equipment to hand and plenty of track off cuts to have a bit of a practice on. I must remember NOT to wear my new best jumper and the end you hold is NOT the shiny point warm end! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said: The current "fashion" in soldered track is solder-balls. A pre-measured quantity on every joint. Faster than the old method of cutting slivers from a length of multi-core with a knife. Paste is expensive stuff. It will work, but I'm not sure of the benefits for attaching wires to rail. - Nigel That sounds quite logical, rather than the hit and miss approach. Mind you on the only copperclad track build I tried, I just fed ordinary solder into the joint. I built a copperclad 3 way based on Peco's large radius turnout geometry, It worked fine and was a useful piece of trackwork. A later curved Diamond wasn't very good! Both were code 100, so were binned when I laid all code 75. Edited November 25, 2020 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Solder paste tends to be used for PCB work when using SMD components. If using this stuff make sure it is actually solder paste and not just flux. It should have silver listed in the ’ingredients’ and it usually comes in a syringe not a tin. Resin cored 60/40 lead/tin solder is the stuff to use for rail work and general soldering. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, RAF96 said: Solder paste tends to be used for PCB work when using SMD components. If using this stuff make sure it is actually solder paste and not just flux. It should have silver listed in the ’ingredients’ and it usually comes in a syringe not a tin. Resin cored 60/40 lead/tin solder is the stuff to use for rail work and general soldering. I used to have a glass jar of a some more fluid version which was lead based. (Since lost, probably in a house move) It was for soldering sheet metal where the two surfaces would be painted with it and then heated whilst held together. It ensured a nice solid joint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, RAF96 said: If using this stuff make sure it is actually solder paste and not just flux. It should have silver listed in the ’ingredients’ and it usually comes in a syringe not a tin. It will be clearly labelled as flux or solder paste or cream. It will not necessarily list silver in the ingredients. It WILL list tin as that is the most basic component of the solder we use. If it's not lead free then the next ingredient will be Lead (i.e. traditional tin/lead solder). After that there MAY be others such as silver or bismuth which are added to change the properties (e.g. melting point). Lead free can be mainly tin or mixed with other metals such as bismuth, silver, copper, again to get the desired properties. Syringes are only used for small quantities for rework. It's also available in tubs. 8 minutes ago, melmerby said: I used to have a glass jar of a some more fluid version which was lead based. "Solder paint". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, melmerby said: I used to have a glass jar of a some more fluid version which was lead based. (Since lost, probably in a house move) It was for soldering sheet metal where the two surfaces would be painted with it and then heated whilst held together. It ensured a nice solid joint. Likely to be plumbers paste, which was brushed on, heated and wiped to shape with a wet rag. It did have a special name, which I cannot recall. Similar stuff was used by panel beaters to fill dents where it was called lead loading, Using bars of solder with the paste. Edited November 30, 2020 by RAF96 More info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted November 30, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, RAF96 said: Likely to be plumbers paste, which was brushed on, heated and wiped to shape with a wet rag. It did have a special name, which I cannot recall. Similar stuff was used by panel beaters to fill dents where it was called lead loading, Using bars of solder with the paste. Unlikely as you only used it in small quantities, insuffient to be used for wiping as in lead pipe joints Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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