Five 79/ex-Chivers LNER 4-wheeled BY 'pigeon' van

[The Johnster]

Please note that I've only today become aware that there is a can of worms regarding the accuracy of this kit, and that I have no intention of opening it.  I liked the look of the van and bought the kit, which I have now assembled (lovely kit to work with, shake the box assembly, very good quality) and am awaiting top hat bearings so that I can put the wheels on.  I've sprayed a grey undercoat on it and may well proceed with the painting while I'm waiting for the bearings to turn up (none of my local shops has any, and this will be an internet order) .  It will be finished in unlined maroon 1956 BR livery.  I am guessing that lettering consists of the number and XP branding; was there any 'load x tons evenly distributed' or anything like that, or perhaps BY?   All information is useful!

 

I am thinking about putting lighting in this and maybe one or two other items of NPCCS, which might sound like a daft idea given the lack of windows on such vehicles to see the interior through, and in any case the windows were usually filthy, but it fits with my memories of the period with dim lighting from such stock often left on by careless staff (or because  the switches were blocked behind parcels) which drained the batteries as the vans stood for long periods without moving.  With this in mind, does anyone know what the internal layout of these vans was?  I know there was a guard's compartment with a ducket on one side, which must have had a handbrake wheel and brake gauges, but were there any partitions, draught foil walls, or even an internal compartment or whas he just left to sit in an open plan vehicle catching bird flu?

 

I am not that bothered by any inaccuracy in the kit, it looks fine as a 'layout model' to me.

[31A]

I've made two of them, they go together well and make up into a nice model.  The main difference that I made was to replace the moulded ducket with an etched one from MJT, which has a better shape.

 

I lettered this one with transfers from Cambridge Custom Transfers, following pictures in David Larkin's Non Passenger Coaching Stock books.  I don't know whether you'll be able to read the small writing in the picture, but in the right hand bottom corner from top to bottom it reads:

 

XP

WB 19'-0"

LOAD 5 TONS DISTRIBUTED  BY

 

The real vans were open from end to end, there were no internal partitions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wheatley]

Can of worms regarding accuracy ? Or just lots of variation in the originals ? Without digging out the original thread I believe the real ones weren't even all the same length. 

 

It goes together very well and looks the part. 

[The Johnster]

I think the issue was accuracy, but that was down to variation in the prototypes.  Anyway, I've built mine and painted it; just waiting for a delivery of bearings to put the wheels on and she can go into service.  As has been said, an nice little kit to build and very satisfying! 

 

I've painted it in 1956 unlined maroon, but having seen 31A Steve's model will possibly reposition the numbers to include the grey panels, I presume used for chalked destination instructions, and add the BY branding.  No partitions, but there must have been a handbrake standard, I would guess aligned to the ducket.  Did the maroon livery include the grey panels?  I'll leave mine as is until I am sure, but will add the BY.  Number is E 70217 E for no better reason than that this was convenient from a sheet I had in stock, but this can easily be altered...

[chris45lsw]

I don't believe Diagram 120s varied in length - they were 32ft over body / 19ft wb.  But there were three near identical diagrams built on recovered pre-Group underframes which were shorter, ie:-

 

D.170  31ft 8.25ins / 19ft 6in wb

D.176  31ft 11.5in / 19ft 6in wb

D.177  30ft 10.5in / 19ft 6.5in wb

 

Items like axle boxes/springs etc were naturally different to the 'standard' D.120 variety.

 

Chris KT

[31A]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I think the issue was accuracy, but that was down to variation in the prototypes.  Anyway, I've built mine and painted it; just waiting for a delivery of bearings to put the wheels on and she can go into service.  As has been said, an nice little kit to build and very satisfying! 

 

I've painted it in 1956 unlined maroon, but having seen 31A Steve's model will possibly reposition the numbers to include the grey panels, I presume used for chalked destination instructions, and add the BY branding.  No partitions, but there must have been a handbrake standard, I would guess aligned to the ducket.  Did the maroon livery include the grey panels?  I'll leave mine as is until I am sure, but will add the BY.  Number is E 70217 E for no better reason than that this was convenient from a sheet I had in stock, but this can easily be altered...

 

Pictures seem to show with or without grey chalking panels in either maroon or crimson liveries; just from looking at the few photos that I have to hand, I think it was more common to have them than not to have them but I must admit I chickened out of painting them on the first one I built.  Actually it wasn't too difficult as the panelling forms a border for three of the sides.  The brake wheel was towards the same side as the ducket, but located not in front of it but between it and the next set of double doors to the right (when looking down on the van from above).  Not that you would be able to see it!

 

[The Johnster]

Thanks Steve; that is just about all the information I could possibly want!.  I am thinking about maybe modelling the guard's door open on one side; it opens inwards and vans ran with the doors open on warm days sometimes.  As I've said this van may be lit, which despite the lack of windows alters matters a little. and if I have the door open on the vacuum cylinder side not the dynamo side the brake standard will be visible from some angles, as might the guard's seat and even the pipes, gauge, and vacuum setter, which will stand out a bit being painted in red. 

 

OTOH this means that other internal detail must be at least suggested as well, such as the shelves which were what made this a 'pigeon' van in the first place, though foldup shelves hanging from chains were a fairly normal fitting in most NPCCS.  The whole concept of a pigeon van seems odd to my GW sensibilities; surely any van with shelves will do for pigeon baskets and there is no need for a specific vehicle which seems not to have any specific fitting for pigeons, and indeed was used as a general BY for most of the time.

 

Pigeons have a presence on Cwmdimbath; there is a Harburn pigeon loft on the mountainside and the Ogmore Forest Pigeon Fanciers Association (incorporating Glynogwr Flyers) is a thriving part of the community that occasionally organises vans or even whole trains to collect birds, or acts  as overseeers for their release on arrival from other parts of the country (in other words, I am a big fan of NPCCS which is a brilliant excuse to include stock in the styles of all of the big 4 on an early BR layout, though I need to fabricate excuses on a mining branch.  As well as the pigeons, there is a distribution depot for a large mail order company further down the branch which attracts a daily delivery and clearance, the excuse to run a Barry 3MT 82xxx).

 

I've 'done' interior detail on a Hornby SR BY, and it is barely visible and arguably pointess but I know it's there, like the unseen but perfectly sculpted backs of the figures on the Elgin Marbles.  Many many many years ago I built a Kitmaster (original Rosebud, as I said it was long ago) Restaurant First, which had full interior detail including laid tables and, completely invisible, toilet fittings, which I put in the compartments and even tried to paint the seats of...  It was sort of nice knowing they were there!  I've painted the interiors of several of my NPCCS cream, though, and that does make a difference when you peer inside, as does painting the interior of the roof white. 

 

My principle, not always reflected in my practice, is to include as much detail as I can without being obsessive (or at least keeping a lid on the obsession part of things) or harming the overall look.  I've done things I regretted in the past in the pursuit of this, such as ruined a Triang Albert Hall trying to get rid of the boiler skirts and to get it to sit at the right height.

[31A]

Well you seem to take interior detail of vans to a higher lever than I do, but in terms of pigeon traffic and these vans, you might find this of interest!

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/128-pigeon-traffic-historical