Multiple Unit Working between different Classes e.g. Class 40 + Class 25

[keefer]

15 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

There were a lot of workings in Scotland in the 1989s & early 90s where any blue star combination could be seen

 

20 / 26 / 37 in mixed pairs. Plenty of photos & videos exist.

In the '60s/70s Fort William trains from Glasgow (inc. sleepers) were often 27 + 20, the 20s used had a through steam pipe to avoid having to turn the locos.

Edin-Inv trains were double headed with 24/26s (or 24+26) and sometimes had an extra 24 added.

Other trains in the WTT were diagrammed for 25/27 (or 25+27).

I think these were done like this, as each combination was matched

i.e 24 & 26 were 1160hp and 75mph, 25 & 27 were 1250hp and 90mph.

Though, if needed, no doubt any available working combination would be used.

 

[dan_the_v8man]

7 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

There were a lot of workings in Scotland in the 1989s & early 90s where any blue star combination could be seen

 

20 / 26 / 37 in mixed pairs. Plenty of photos & videos exist.

Any examples? Not found anything on Google myself so far, but then again I might be looking for the wrong thing 

[black and decker boy]

30 minutes ago, dan_the_v8man said:

Any examples? Not found anything on Google myself so far, but then again I might be looking for the wrong thing 

2 min 39 secs 

 

 

lots of such working in the Railfreight type series books published at that time and probably in the VHS / DVDs of that period too

I created a model railway layout based on such books, vids & magazines of the time

[caradoc]

8 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

There were a lot of workings in Scotland in the 1989s & early 90s where any blue star combination could be seen

 

20 / 26 / 37 in mixed pairs. Plenty of photos & videos exist.

 

Indeed, 20 + 37 was a regular combo on Ayr area coal trains in the late 1980s. 

 

[russ p]

 

 

 

Aa great day a few years ago with mixed power in multi 

[Davexoc]

Delving through 1983 Modern Railways Pictorials this afternoon found some oddities.

25+40 came up several times, BOC tanks and track recovery from Woodhead, plus a 2x25+40

25+45 on a St Pancras - Derby passenger working

3x33 with 2 in multi and the other in tandem

2x31 assisting a 58 which had failed, but the 31s were inside, with the 58 leading

2x20 but in nose to cab formation

[45125]

11 hours ago, keefer said:

I'm sure the general instruction in the GA/SA was a maximum of 3, i.e. in theory but as mentioned above, the real world could be a bit different for various reasons.

The Ravenscraig ore trains were usually 3 x 37, but the third loco was sometimes a 26, being added for the climb to Holytown.

 

 

Was told the reason for a max of three was due to a combination of volt drop through the jumpers and air pressure loss the reg air side, however when we asked the instructor who told this what about the Edinburgh Glasgow push pulls, he looked a bit bemused.

[Zomboid]

I believe the MU gear on 45s at least was removed pretty early. An MU arrangement on a peak (or a 40) would mean that the front loco and half rear locos tractive effort is transmitted by the rear bogie bearing on the second loco, which i think caused problems.

That and the need to multi type 4s was pretty limited anyway.

[dan_the_v8man]

13 hours ago, russ p said:

 

 

 

Aa great day a few years ago with mixed power in multi 

 

That first video looks like the 20 isn't far off its 75mph limit!! 

[russ p]

1 minute ago, dan_the_v8man said:

 

That first video looks like the 20 isn't far off its 75mph limit!! 

 

Well there abouts........ I was driving! 

[dan_the_v8man]

1 minute ago, russ p said:

 

Well there abouts........ I was driving! 

Fantastic! I've only ever had one up to 30mph with about 400t behind it, would love to have driven one at speed, though they don't look like the smoothest of rides  

[russ p]

1 minute ago, dan_the_v8man said:

Fantastic! I've only ever had one up to 30mph with about 400t behind it, would love to have driven one at speed, though they don't look like the smoothest of rides  

 

They aren't too bad on welded rail , was a bit rough on the remaining jointed sections out in the flat lands. Must have been hell when it was all jointed all the way from Nottingham to skeg !

[TravisM]

17 hours ago, russ p said:

 

 

 

Aa great day a few years ago with mixed power in multi 

Didn’t they use DRS’s unique MU system when they paired up the different loco’s?

[russ p]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

Didn’t they use DRS’s unique MU system when they paired up the different loco’s?

 

Its basically blue star with different jumpers,  they are a lot lighter and easier to fit 

[dan_the_v8man]

On 30/11/2020 at 15:51, russ p said:

 

Its basically blue star with different jumpers,  they are a lot lighter and easier to fit 

 

So no compatibility with later locos?

[newbryford]

6 minutes ago, dan_the_v8man said:

 

So no compatibility with later locos?

 

DRS 37s have worked along with NwR 37s on test trains for example.

 

I think its only a different connector  - IIRC that it is a more reliable as well! (no doubt Russ will confirm/deny).

Not quite locos, but the Network Rail RTOVs and the DRS DBSOs are Blue Star, as is 975025 Caroline.  Plenty of DRS 37s to be seen on those duties

[Titan]

On 29/11/2020 at 00:14, jools1959 said:

 I also though the triple 37’s on the Port Talbot - Llanwern iron ore trains were from the last built and rigorously checked before going out as the train was so heavy.  It was thought that there was nothing could move it if it died, especially on a bank.

 

I am not sure that was the case, as I understand it they did not need three locos for tractive effort, but speed where horsepower is king.  The ore trains ran on the main line between HSTs, and they needed to accelerate the train quickly to its 60mph maximum speed, and keep it there or thereabouts in order to complete the run without delaying the following HST.  I believe that a pair of 37's could haul the train over the route without difficulty, just not fast enough!

[russ p]

6 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

DRS 37s have worked along with NwR 37s on test trains for example.

 

I think its only a different connector  - IIRC that it is a more reliable as well! (no doubt Russ will confirm/deny).

Not quite locos, but the Network Rail RTOVs and the DRS DBSOs are Blue Star, as is 975025 Caroline.  Plenty of DRS 37s to be seen on those duties

 

There are adaptor cables to couple the drs socket to a blue star one . No compatibility between 57/66 and 68 and the older stuff. Basically blue star and 47s use an air operated throttle and the likes of the 66 is electric 

[Titan]

3 hours ago, russ p said:

 

There are adaptor cables to couple the drs socket to a blue star one . No compatibility between 57/66 and 68 and the older stuff. Basically blue star and 47s use an air operated throttle and the likes of the 66 is electric 

 

Wonder if that means the 57/66 could work with 31/0 given a suitable adaptor? 

What about the class 70s, are they compatible with anything else?

[frobisher]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

 

What about the class 70s, are they compatible with anything else?

 

They are AAR fitted as I understand it, so can work with 59/66/67 and the AAR equipped 68's.

[russ p]

I was told that the 70s have a couple of wires reversed so are not true AAR , I'm not sure the AAR 68s can work with anything but a DVT

[Firecrest]

The nose end of 131 is quite intriguing - seems to have had a pair of nose end doors from a disc fitted loco added at some point - note the holes for the marker lights... 127 was the same but kept the discs 

[GordonC]

On 29/11/2020 at 19:13, caradoc said:

 

Indeed, 20 + 37 was a regular combo on Ayr area coal trains in the late 1980s. 

 

 

It was also quite common to have Class 20s as pilots between Stranraer and Ayr with 47s so in tandem rather than multiple. Pretty sure I've seen them used with 40s and 27s on that line too, but photos are eluding me at the moment

 

 

 

[MyRule1]

 

On 28/11/2020 at 13:16, russ p said:

When DRS fitted multi gear to the 47s they could and did work with 20s and 37s .

I am not sure whether the 47 was dead or not in the consist of 37+47+90 at Colchester 17th March 2014

 

[russ p]

22 minutes ago, MyRule1 said:

 

I am not sure whether the 47 was dead or not in the consist of 37+47+90 at Colchester 17th March 2014

 

 

 

Looks like a wheel lathe move so probably not