New American Outline - N or HO? Ideas Welcome....

[Liam_uk]

Hi,

 

I've recently got into american railroads. I've decided to turn my new loft layout into an american railroad.

Thing is I am unsure whether to do it in N scale and have a running line through the countryside with twin track and a few industries.

Or do I go HO and have less of a line with a small yard, running line with several industries. 

 

I have attached a picture of the space I have available, with the 2ft wide boards being a yard/fiddleyard on show and scenic.

 

Any ideas, plans or views are welcome. I am still very new to the american "scene" since only becoming interested during the first lockdown. 

[Regularity]

I know what I would do in that space, but I am not you. You are asking the right questions, but these can only be answered by you.

[Liam_uk]

9 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I know what I would do in that space, but I am not you. You are asking the right questions, but these can only be answered by you.

 

Your right there, but I am just trying to get peoples opinions as well.

What would you do in that space out of interest?

 

If it helps I am looking to go DCC and eventually sound....

Looking at modelling 90s/early 00s

[Jeff Smith]

There are some basic questions to ask:-

- Do you have experience of N or HO, which do you prefer working with?

- Have you built a large layout before?  Some people will lay all the track, get it working then fill the scenery in but still be able to play trains.  This might uncover aspects of the configuration that need to be changed - easier with no scenery.  However just building and completing one  section might be a better idea in case you ideas change....

[Regularity]

A simple short line, in S scale. Not many turnouts, and just two or three industries. Something like the North Stratford RR, either in independent days (shipping furniture out and feed stuff in) or maybe in MEC days. For me, on my own, that’s as many trains as I can handle at a time. With a friend, one of us as fireman, the other as engineer.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Regularity
Other people’s opinions don’t matter.

[mdvle]

48 minutes ago, Liam_uk said:

I've recently got into american railroads. I've decided to turn my new loft layout into an american railroad.

Thing is I am unsure whether to do it in N scale and have a running line through the countryside with twin track and a few industries.

Or do I go HO and have less of a line with a small yard, running line with several industries.

 

You have a respectable space whichever scale you end up choosing.

 

I think it really depends on stuff other than the available size.

 

How healthy is your budget?  Or to put it another way, are you looking to buy new stuff (easier) or used (in which case maybe get an idea of what the respective used markets are like in the UK).

 

How important is sound?  Obviously the larger the scale, the better the sound possibilities.

 

What interests you?  if you want really long trains, then even with your space N will be the better option, but if you want switching then HO is likely better.

 

Do you want to be prototypical, or more a freelance anything goes?  It is easier to be prototype specific in HO with the greater variety of stuff, but there is still plenty of stuff in N if you are more flexible.

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Liam_uk said:

I am unsure whether to do it in N scale and have a running line through the countryside with twin track and a few industries.

Or do I go HO and have less of a line with a small yard, running line with several industries. 

I'm modelling American O Scale in less space than you have there but with a similar philosophy to Simon (Regularity) - simple track plan, just 5 switches in total, but still interesting operating potential.

Of course I have to use some compromises which other modellers might not want themselves, such as sharp curves (36" radius), & I don't having any hidden or staging track (a fiddleyard in English!).

 

Be aware that even a lot of main lines in the USA are single track.

As for N-vs-HO, if prices are pretty much the same for stuff as seems to be the case with UK N & OO, then the scale choice really comes down to personal preference & what you want to see - trains in the landscape, or the trains themselves.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear RMwebbers, Liam,

 

OK, you asked, I'll "lead with my chin"...

 

- S scale = don't bother. Not enough actually-available US outline equipment choice to give free-reign to your desired modelling inspiration...
(IE if you start with a given prototype inspiration that you really want to model,
then you'll find the available range in S sadly lacking in range,
and you will have to compromise the vision that you started-with...
...and that's a near-guaranteed recipe for disillusionment and stalling-out...)

 

"S-Helper Service" used-to-be your "go to" option for "newcomer launchpad US outline S-scale model options",
but they are no-longer,
and while their SW1/SW7 switchers were awesome "base an entire layout around the one loco model" options, it does kinda limit "I wanna model XYZ prototype" freedom... :-(
(If there was an EMD SW1500, more-modern era rollingstock, and track available in S SG,
my fleet of HO switchers might well feel a little nervous,
but there's no fear of this eventuating...)

 

- Honourable mention : O scale = many of the same limitations as S scale listed above,
only (arguably) worse as the pool of available US outline models is diluted between

"O scale 3 rail" (Toy O gauge),

"O scale 2 Rail" (the closest logical "upgrade/entry point" for a refuge "experienced modeller" from another scale, albeit also insanely poorly-served by the US manufs... and Atlas as the "best hope we've got" is letting the team down heavily...

The modeller can't buy what isn't produced,
thus not producing sales/revenue,
thus prompting Atlas to say "no-one's buying, so no-one wants it"...

self-sabotaging, self-forfilling prophecy if ever there was one...),

or "Proto 48" (think "Scale7" only for US outline 1/4" O scale modelling.
EVERYTHING needs adjusting just to be put on the track,
NOTHING is newcomer-level available "out of box", and despite protestations to the contrary,
actual practical experience proves sourcing "drop-in replacement wheelsets and bolsters" is darn-near impossible outside the continental USA...
...and worse if one happens to live on the underside of the planet...)

 

NB I'm not bitter, but I do have a Proto-Nook's worth of Atlas O2R equipment that may well be looking for a new home in the near future, if I don't see some convincing evidence toot-sweet that US outline O2R is worth saving/promoting at exhibitions... (neither the manufs, nor the "inside sports" O scale modellers seem to give a singular iota about promoting their scale/gauge, or giving "newcomers" a serious chance to "get onboard"...

...and yet have the hide to whinge "...why don't people like O scale?")

 

That said, If Atlas pulled-finger-out and got their excellent MP15 switcher,
(or preferrably a SW1500) back in production, 
preferably with an upgrade centre-motor mech derived from their "awesome but unobtainium" SW7/SW9/SW1200RS switcher (Atlas, dammit, you make me weep....)
then my fleet of HO SW1500s would absolutely have every right to feel very nervous...

(again, I have zero fear that this might happen...
I don't wish to be cynical, but I foresee no-changes in sight...)

 

- N scale = if you're already comfy with it, your eyesight is good-enough,
(and your age/stage is such that you do not foresee your sight failing rapidly in the near future), 
and the thing that you really want to model is "long snaking mainline trains winding thru high scenery-to-track-ratio scenes", then step-right-up and go for it. Get comfy with MicroTrains (both the offerings and the prices), and look to Intermountain, and take a long slow-roll thru Spookshow.net
http://www.spookshow.net/trainstuff.html 

 

You'll find a reasonably range of modern (1990s onwards) and 1950s "1st generation diesels" models available, but if steam is your thing, then move-along...

 

- HO scale = the world is virtually your oyster. Models of most eras
(excepting maybe pre-1900s "early steam" 4-4-0s, think classic "cowboy western" trains)
are commonly available, and many run well straight-out-of-box. You can start with almost any "I want to model Prototype RR XYZ in the nnnn Era" inspiration,
and HO will likely have you covered with a suitable-style on model, 
if not the actual locomotive type/model the prototype uses.

You won't be snaking full scale-mile-long freight trains around in your stated space
(as N does and quite rightful enables the modeller to do, and does-so very well),
but you will enjoy much less-finicky running (larger pickup/contact areas, more heft),
space to do onboard sound some justice (Hint: check out ScaleSoundSystems.com speakers),
and availability of relevant loco and rollingstock models which has your nominated/preferred 1990s - 2010s era rather well-covered...
 

For my mind, the only "division bell" factor is if you want to model:
- long mainline freights winding thru scenery (choose N scale)
- more-personal/up-close railroading (choose HO scale)

 

Beyond that, it's not really a question for my mind...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Start the way you mean to Go On,
(and in a manner which enables starting options, rather than hamstringing you from the outset)
Prof Klyzlr

Edited November 28, 2020 by Prof Klyzlr

[GP9u]

Liam, you're going to have a lot of fun with this, no matter which scale you choose!

 

I'm biased as you'll see, but I have to throw my hat in the ring for O scale 2-rail as a consideration. I've found there's a decent amount of modern-era equipment to be had new and used. I chose to model a freelance short line to allow more flexibility with my favourite Diesels. DCC and sound make for a decent experience of up-close switching action if that's of interest.     

 

Here's a quick clip to give you a sense of the up-close experience in O scale (turn up your sub-woofer)!

https://youtu.be/PKpRUME7lJM 

 

Budget-wise, used O scale locos and cars can cost about as much as new HO equipment, and you won't need as much equipment.     

Check out my YouTube channel for more O scale action. Everything you see here goes around 36" radius curves and switches.

https://www.youtube.com/user/GP9um/videos

 

None of the large industries on my layout are over 10 real feet long, or 2 ft deep.   With up to 8 designated spots per industry, each can take an hour to switch with a 2-man crew (local or remote).  A couple of those industries and a 2 or 3-track yard or interchange and you'd easily have 2-hour operating sessions. Plus you'd only need 3-4  locos and maybe 30-40 cars to make each session a bit different switching-wise.

 

O scale track and switches are available new and used, and again you won't need as much as you would in HO or N.

 

Hopefully food for thought at least...

 

Pete 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Some interesting and useful responses already.  I suppose the comment I’d make contains two apparently conflicting elements:

 

1.  Take a bit of time to look around - what is it about American RR that got you interested?  What have other modellers done in this sort of space?  How much modelling have you done before - what do you enjoy doing, what do you not enjoy?
 

2.  On the other hand - don’t leave it too long to get something up and running, before interest wanes.
 

One thing I would definitely do would be to look at some track plans for American Model Railroads - Kalmbach publish quite a range of books with ideas in them.  Just beware that your space may be classed as small - compact - medium (depending on scale) in the terminology used, whereas in the UK we’d see it as quite large.

 

My final point - do make sure you’re happy to spend time looking around for stuff / maybe buying some second hand or eBay / waiting for things to appear on the market: supplies are not as large as they used to be in this country, and new import rules post-Brexit could have an pact.  I’ve decided I’m OK with having to do that, and am also now getting started.  
 

Hope this all helps,

 

Keith.

[PaulRhB]

As others have said the basic first question is what type of trains do you want to run? N suits mainline running but even in N the big block trains are going to be expensive and you’ll be looking at 2-3 locos on each so you can be looking at £80+ per loco (dc) and £15-20 per wagon see some Kato prices here https://www.traintrax.co.uk/kato-gauge-c-29.html

 

If you prefer lots of switching then HO is great and you could model a industrial park or a shortline with an interchange to a major railroad. 
Kalmbach offer some great modelling books available from SPV here. 
This is worth considering https://www.spv.co.uk/acatalog/How-to-Model-Today-s-Railroads-TODAYSMR.html

 

and more prototype and models here plus extensive ranges of dvd’s

https://www.spv.co.uk/acatalog/Magazines_Annuals.html
 

Some ideas on what can be done in HO from our modular meets, they offer a way of running bigger trains and using the stock from your home layout, you don’t need to build modules to get involved

 

Also surf this site using filters for company. I’d suggest selecting ‘photos only’ and 90 to a page (under the search button) from the drop downs to make it quicker  

https://www.railpictures.net

 

Lots of options and fun to be had  

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 hours ago, GP9u said:

Liam, you're going to have a lot of fun with this, no matter which scale you choose!

 

I'm biased as you'll see, but I have to throw my hat in the ring for O scale 2-rail as a consideration. I've found there's a decent amount of modern-era equipment to be had new and used. I chose to model a freelance short line to allow more flexibility with my favourite Diesels. DCC and sound make for a decent experience of up-close switching action if that's of interest.     

 

Here's a quick clip to give you a sense of the up-close experience in O scale (turn up your sub-woofer)!

https://youtu.be/PKpRUME7lJM 

 

Budget-wise, used O scale locos and cars can cost about as much as new HO equipment, and you won't need as much equipment.     

Check out my YouTube channel for more O scale action. Everything you see here goes around 36" radius curves and switches.

https://www.youtube.com/user/GP9um/videos

 

None of the large industries on my layout are over 10 real feet long, or 2 ft deep.   With up to 8 designated spots per industry, each can take an hour to switch with a 2-man crew (local or remote).  A couple of those industries and a 2 or 3-track yard or interchange and you'd easily have 2-hour operating sessions. Plus you'd only need 3-4  locos and maybe 30-40 cars to make each session a bit different switching-wise.

 

O scale track and switches are available new and used, and again you won't need as much as you would in HO or N.

 

Hopefully food for thought at least...

 

Pete 

 

 

Have you got a thread for this layout? I would be interested to see the trackplan.

[Joseph_Pestell]

During Lockdown 2 I have spent quite a lot of time looking at YouTube videos of US layouts. If you have not done this already, I would suggest that you do. Much to be learned.

 

As others have said, even in N, your space is a bit limited for running full length US trains. A small shortline, perhaps freelance, is likely to be the best option.

 

In HO, a switching layout is a more likely option but a shortline still possible with a few tricks to hide the short length of the crossing loops.

 

Era is also important as a train with a good number of 40' freight cars looks better than a train with only a few long freight cars.

[Regularity]

More questions.

 

Will this be for just you?

Most of the time or all of the time?

What floats your boat:

Lots of trains running?

Lots of switching?

Short trains?

Long trains?

Are you a builder or an operator, or more accurately, where on the scale between those extremes do you put yourself?

(Anywhere from a scratchbuilder who needs a test track (Tom Mix or Mike Cougill in P:48) to an operator who wants to lay track and run trains (David Bairstow in H0 with his Cat Mountsin and Sante Fe)? 

How important to you is detail (suggests going for a larger scale) versus the impression of a train in the landscape (smaller scale is indicated)?

Although Prof is right about S scale and O2R, in terms of immediately available RTR, for a dedicated modeller with deep enough pockets, it is possible to pick up a surprising amount, for example I can produce a Rutland Railroad milk train in unpainted brass with 7 different milk cars plus a combine, headed up by a choice from 3 brass locos. But you are looking at spending  couple of thousand pounds over a couple of years...

 

[Supaned]

I'd echo what others have said.

 

Have a think about what you want from the layout ie operations and switching (HO scale probably the best bet) or running long trains through a landscape (N gauge the better option given the space available).

 

Also take a look at what models are actually available in your chosen scale as otherwise , as has been stated , you'll end up disappointed and the project may well flounder. HO does have a broader selection of locomotives and car types , although N scale is catching up , but even then there are some things available in one scale and not the other which seem a little odd. Bear in mind that in both cases , manufacturers generally operate on a pre-order and batch production basis , so whilst they may have produced certain models in the past , obtaining them may not be that simple unless they do a re-run or you can find them on the secondhand market. The big class 1 railroads such as Union Pacific , BNSF etc are usually plentiful , but the regional and shortline stuff less so.

 

Freemo is also worth a look , and there are groups in the UK for both N and HO scale should you go down that path.

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

During Lockdown 2 I have spent quite a lot of time looking at YouTube videos of US layouts. If you have not done this already, I would suggest that you do. Much to be learned.

 

As others have said, even in N, your space is a bit limited for running full length US trains. A small shortline, perhaps freelance, is likely to be the best option.

 

In HO, a switching layout is a more likely option but a shortline still possible with a few tricks to hide the short length of the crossing loops.

 

Era is also important as a train with a good number of 40' freight cars looks better than a train with only a few long freight cars.

Good point about disguising the short length of crossing loops (passing sidings or run-round tracks).  I’ll pinch that one if I may  .

 

From the videos / photos I’ve been looking at, it would appear that short trains might also be more likely in older eras too (ie: just a few 40’ or maybe 50’ boxcars and a Caboose, or Combine for a Mixed Train).

 

To run just a few of the very impressive modern freight cars, a switching layout might again be the place to look?

Edited November 28, 2020 by Keith Addenbrooke

[PaulRhB]

51 minutes ago, Regularity said:

s (David Bairstow in H0 with his Cat Mountsin and Sante Fe)? 

David Barrow will be easier to find

Here’s a bit by another master of the switching layout, Lance Mindheim, on David Barrows influence 

https://lancemindheim.com/2013/08/barrows-stamp/

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

Hi there,

While I do agree with all the above comments, I would like to add an additional scale that is suitable for the trains snaking through the scenery type layout, Z scale!

The main Manufacturers are Micro Scale, Marklin and American Z Line, there is a decent range of locos and rolling stock available albeit a lesser range than N scale and a substantial range of additional component makers.

At a scale of 1/220, you can get a lot more in a given space.

Drawbacks are that it is quite expensive, stuff is more limited run than other scales and if you’re inclined towards steam era, (brass) locos are extremely expensive!

Track is of a coarser appearance but some makes are pretty nice looking. 
I have been doing a lot of research into it and if it were not for my H0 commitments, I would go for it.

Just for your consideration!

Cheers,

John

[F-UnitMad]

Having 'staked my claim' as an O Scale modeller, I should temper that by saying that I came to it via N & HO. I wouldn't dive straight into US Outline with O Scale - in fact I doubt I would start in O now; as The Prof said, supply of models is pretty dire at the moment, & the £-$ exchange rate equally miserable, then shipping rates from the US have gone through the roof in recent years... all equally apllicable to the smaller scales too of course, except the pool of available models is far healthier.

 

[298]

Have I missed the bit about where the location was discussed..? Or a theme for the layout such as a favourite movie or TV show that might have an influence on the layout.

[Jeff Smith]

Although I live in the US, and have done for 33 years, I have virtually no interest in US railways.  However the exception for me was On30 - turn of the century narrow gauge steam and early diesel running on 16.5mm track.  I'm not really into RTR but the Bachmann range is very good.  The scale (1:48) is near enough to O-16.5 to run that too......

[Liam_uk]

WOW! I hadn't expected that much food for thought!

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply and give a reply.

 

I will try and answer things best I can. This one maybe a long post.....

 

1 hour ago, 298 said:

Have I missed the bit about where the location was discussed..? Or a theme for the layout such as a favourite movie or TV show that might have an influence on the layout.

 

I havent got a place in mind. I do like What I have seen in videos etc in Virginia and Michigan. I also really like the RS Towers layout and the BNSF Fall River Division in HO, which I recently found and it was the first layout that made me sit there and think I need more space. It is so well modelled and has the right mix of operation and scenic runs.

 

Maybe somewhere in a woodland area/countryside.

 

3 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hi there,

While I do agree with all the above comments, I would like to add an additional scale that is suitable for the trains snaking through the scenery type layout, Z scale!

 

 

I saw Z gauge next to us at Milton Keynes and whilst I can see the appeal for some, its not for me. 

Thank you for the suggestion though

 

3 hours ago, Supaned said:

I'd echo what others have said.

 

Have a think about what you want from the layout ie operations and switching (HO scale probably the best bet) or running long trains through a landscape (N gauge the better option given the space available).

 

Freemo is also worth a look , and there are groups in the UK for both N and HO scale should you go down that path.

 

 

I am mainly interested in operating. I do like to "play" when operating. but I would like to see some scenic area to run through as well.

 

Ive not heard of Freemo and will give it a look. 

 

4 hours ago, Regularity said:

More questions.

 

Will this be for just you?

Most of the time or all of the time?

What floats your boat:

Lots of trains running?

Lots of switching?

Short trains?

Long trains?

Are you a builder or an operator, or more accurately, where on the scale between those extremes do you put yourself?

(Anywhere from a scratchbuilder who needs a test track (Tom Mix or Mike Cougill in P:48) to an operator who wants to lay track and run trains (David Bairstow in H0 with his Cat Mountsin and Sante Fe)? 

How important to you is detail (suggests going for a larger scale) versus the impression of a train in the landscape (smaller scale is indicated)?

Although Prof is right about S scale and O2R, in terms of immediately available RTR, for a dedicated modeller with deep enough pockets, it is possible to pick up a surprising amount, for example I can produce a Rutland Railroad milk train in unpainted brass with 7 different milk cars plus a combine, headed up by a choice from 3 brass locos. But you are looking at spending  couple of thousand pounds over a couple of years...

 

 

Thats alot of questions,  but I will try an answer them,

It will mainly be myself probably 60% of the time, with others the rest. 

Not fussed on having lots of trains running, maybe a maximum of 2 in some form.

Not too fussed on the length of trains. Was thinking in HO probably a max of 15-20 cars and in N probably 30 or so.

I like to operate and like realistic operations, and that appeals to me with american modelling as everything is done for a reason. But I also like to building (post woodwork!), and like to give scenery a go. I have only built one layout before attempting this, and it will be the top deck of a double decker loft layout.

I like adding detail and making a realistic scene, but I dont want to go any bigger than HO.

 

5 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

During Lockdown 2 I have spent quite a lot of time looking at YouTube videos of US layouts. If you have not done this already, I would suggest that you do. Much to be learned.

 

As others have said, even in N, your space is a bit limited for running full length US trains. A small shortline, perhaps freelance, is likely to be the best option.

 

In HO, a switching layout is a more likely option but a shortline still possible with a few tricks to hide the short length of the crossing loops.

 

Era is also important as a train with a good number of 40' freight cars looks better than a train with only a few long freight cars.

 

Ive watched several youtube videos. It was that that got me interested.

I start by watching UK webcams and when nothing seemed to go past I looked further afield. I then came across Virtual Railfan. After watching those I saw the signalling and wanted to find out more, this is where I discovered Danny Harman (Distance Signal) and Delay in Block Youtube Channels. 

And this is where I saw Locals, which I was really interested in as they are the same as our old Speedlink and Enterprise Networks, which are an interest of mine. 

 

6 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

As others have said the basic first question is what type of trains do you want to run? N suits mainline running but even in N the big block trains are going to be expensive and you’ll be looking at 2-3 locos on each so you can be looking at £80+ per loco (dc) and £15-20 per wagon see some Kato prices here https://www.traintrax.co.uk/kato-gauge-c-29.html

 

If you prefer lots of switching then HO is great and you could model a industrial park or a shortline with an interchange to a major railroad. 
Kalmbach offer some great modelling books available from SPV here. 
This is worth considering https://www.spv.co.uk/acatalog/How-to-Model-Today-s-Railroads-TODAYSMR.html

 

and more prototype and models here plus extensive ranges of dvd’s

https://www.spv.co.uk/acatalog/Magazines_Annuals.html
 

Some ideas on what can be done in HO from our modular meets, they offer a way of running bigger trains and using the stock from your home layout, you don’t need to build modules to get involved

 

Also surf this site using filters for company. I’d suggest selecting ‘photos only’ and 90 to a page (under the search button) from the drop downs to make it quicker  

https://www.railpictures.net

 

Lots of options and fun to be had  

 

Dont have a type of train really, But Locals really interest me. 

 

8 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Some interesting and useful responses already.  I suppose the comment I’d make contains two apparently conflicting elements:

 

1.  Take a bit of time to look around - what is it about American RR that got you interested?  What have other modellers done in this sort of space?  How much modelling have you done before - what do you enjoy doing, what do you not enjoy?
 

2.  On the other hand - don’t leave it too long to get something up and running, before interest wanes.
 

Hope this all helps,

 

Keith.

 

Hi Keith, to answer No1 - as I said above I start by watching UK webcams and when nothing seemed to go past I looked further afield. I then came across Virtual Railfan. After watching those I saw the signalling and wanted to find out more, this is where I discovered Danny Harman (Distance Signal) and Delay in Block Youtube Channels. And this is where I saw Locals, which I was really interested in as they are the same as our old Speedlink and Enterprise Networks, which are an interest of mine. 

 

No2 - It is part of a double deck layout so I can progress with the English Deck whilst sorting the american deck. 

 

10 hours ago, GP9u said:

Liam, you're going to have a lot of fun with this, no matter which scale you choose!

 

I'm biased as you'll see, but I have to throw my hat in the ring for O scale 2-rail as a consideration. I've found there's a decent amount of modern-era equipment to be had new and used. I chose to model a freelance short line to allow more flexibility with my favourite Diesels. DCC and sound make for a decent experience of up-close switching action if that's of interest.     

 

Hopefully food for thought at least...

 

Pete 

 

 

Hi Pete, thank you for the suggestion, but I want to stay with HO as the largest size...

 

16 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I'm modelling American O Scale in less space than you have there but with a similar philosophy to Simon (Regularity) - simple track plan, just 5 switches in total, but still interesting operating potential.

Of course I have to use some compromises which other modellers might not want themselves, such as sharp curves (36" radius), & I don't having any hidden or staging track (a fiddleyard in English!).

 

Be aware that even a lot of main lines in the USA are single track.

As for N-vs-HO, if prices are pretty much the same for stuff as seems to be the case with UK N & OO, then the scale choice really comes down to personal preference & what you want to see - trains in the landscape, or the trains themselves.

 

Im hoping the staging will be on show and be the yard where trains are sorted. 

Seen that alot are single line with passing sidings which I would model if I went N.

 

17 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

How healthy is your budget?  Or to put it another way, are you looking to buy new stuff (easier) or used (in which case maybe get an idea of what the respective used markets are like in the UK).

 

How important is sound?  Obviously the larger the scale, the better the sound possibilities.

 

What interests you?  if you want really long trains, then even with your space N will be the better option, but if you want switching then HO is likely better.

 

Do you want to be prototypical, or more a freelance anything goes?  It is easier to be prototype specific in HO with the greater variety of stuff, but there is still plenty of stuff in N if you are more flexible.

 

 

 

I dont have thousands every month as I have a family etc, however I also understand that any hobby is expensive. It is cheaper than my last hobby of Rallying. 

 

Sound isnt the be all, but I do like having sound as for me it enhances the scene your trying to create. 

 

I like the locals and short lines that I have seen. But also like the larger trains. Although I wont be able to model them in full length in either scale. 

 

I would like to get some prototypical operations in, but will probably be a little freelance as I am still learning. A sort of Proto Freelance lol.

 

17 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

There are some basic questions to ask:-

- Do you have experience of N or HO, which do you prefer working with?

- Have you built a large layout before?  Some people will lay all the track, get it working then fill the scenery in but still be able to play trains.  This might uncover aspects of the configuration that need to be changed - easier with no scenery.  However just building and completing one  section might be a better idea in case you ideas change....

 

I have more experience in 00.

my exhibition layout started as a N gauge British. However I like the 00 locos and availability more so switched,

I operate my uncles N scale and N gauge exhibitions and that is what lead me to look at N scale (picture attached). 

 

Ive never built a layout of this magnitude, just building one exhibition layout. However I suppose you have to start somewhere. plus as I have mentioned it is part of a double decker layout, so should always have something to play with....

 

 

 

Thank you for everyone who took the time and I hope my  replies have answered everthing

[Johann Marsbar]

24 minutes ago, Liam_uk said:

And this is where I saw Locals, which I was really interested in as they are the same as our old Speedlink and Enterprise Networks, which are an interest of mine. 

 

Dont have a type of train really, But Locals really interest me. 

 

I then came across Virtual Railfan. After watching those I saw the signalling and wanted to find out more, this is where I discovered Danny Harman (Distance Signal) and Delay in Block Youtube Channels. And this is where I saw Locals, which I was really interested in as they are the same as our old Speedlink and Enterprise Networks, which are an interest of mine. 

 

 

Presumably you have watched the Elkhart, IN, Virtual Railcam?

 

That seems a particularly interesting area to model as apart from the usual suspect NS locos, you fairly regularly get UP, CP, CN, BNSF, CSX etc running through, plus Amtrak, the Grand Elk Railroad coming in from the north, plus 2 NS locals that still use cabooses as "shoving platforms".

It's certainly an area I'd consider modelling if I was starting from anew, but as I'm not, I'll have to stick to my North East Corridor/New Englandish N layout instead.....

[Regularity]

Consider a “chainsaw layout”, so called because you intend to rip it apart after a while (use of a chainsaw is metaphorical, and you can always re-use baseboards if they are well constructed*).

But some cheaper stock, maybe second hand, in either N or H0, plus some flexible track and a few turnouts, and get something down and running. See how you get on. If you like the scheme and scale, then think about revising/refining the stock. If not, try the other one. Properly designed and carefully built, even a very simple layout can give you hours of pleasure. 
This will take you to a simple layout idea, which could be turned into an oval (via a hidden link) for test running, etc. With more space between the locations, and with longer sidings (loops) and spurs (dead-stub sidings) it will provide hours of operational and constructional pleasure.

* However, do scrap baseboards that do not meet your future needs, either by design, shape, or because frankly you can do a better job now.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Regularity
Forgot to include the footnote.

[Liam_uk]

Hi all,

 

So I've been thinking about this question, whilst spending most of my free time as "death by Woodwork".

With most of the larger side nearly complete I borrow some of my uncles N scale stock.

 

Whilst it did look good on the board and would be very fitting as trains in the landscape, to make the train look a decent and not lost it needed 20 - 25 cars. This meant that by the time most of the train was out the yard it was nearly out the yard it was already heading back in (if that makes any sense!).

Maybe if I had a staging area underneath it would negate that as you could run onto the layout, around all 4 sides and back off again.

 

I've also been looking at smaller layouts on Youtube and the internet in HO scale.

 

I've decided to go for the best of both worlds scenario. I am going to collect NS Coalporters to go with the 2 Kato SD70s in NS that I currently have. This will then run on my uncles layout at exhibitions.

 

In the loft I will then go to HO and make a small yard with industries with NS as the operator, maybe even a few others tbd. 

 

So thats the way forward from here once I have finally finished gluing, screwing and getting covered in saw dust. 

 

Thank you for everyone that responded, and if anyone is interested I will make a thread to keep people upto date with layout as well as me asking loads of questions....