The SNCF 141R; a much-modeled locomotive

[sncf231e]

Last week I found a TAB Gerard model of the SNCF 141R in H0. Lima, RivaRossi, Jouef (and the makers of more expensive models Fulgurex and Lemaco) also made models. I made a video to present a couple of these.

 

 

Regards

Fred

[Pacific231G]

Thanks Fred for a fascinating comparison.

It's interesting to see how well some of the early models stand up even now. For such an early product the Tab Gerard model still looks good and, apart from the wheel flanges, I'd be quite happy to use the Jouef models on my layout now. The Lima version is a bit cruder. The Rivarossi model looks a bit narrow gauge so may be 1:80 scale, like many of their European outline models from that period (I used to have a Rivarossi 231E and though it looked good on its own was clearly overscale against my other stock)

[pH]

Not all were ‘Americaines’ - 140 were built in Canada by Montreal Locomotive Works and Canadian Locomotive Company. 
 

The only SNCF steam locos I ever saw in action were a couple of 141Rs at Mulhouse in 1966. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

15 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Thanks Fred for a fascinating comparison.

It's interesting to see how well some of the early models stand up even now. For such an early product the Tab Gerard model still looks good and, apart from the wheel flanges, I'd be quite happy to use the Jouef models on my layout now. The Lima version is a bit cruder. The Rivarossi model looks a bit narrow gauge so may be 1:80 scale, like many of their European outline models from that period (I used to have a Rivarossi 231E and though it looked good on its own was clearly overscale against my other stock)

 

Bit of a shock to realise that the Rivarossi model is 20 years old now. Where have those two decades gone?

 

It came after the Lima/Rivarossi takeover of Jouef. I suspect that it was really a Jouef initiative that got branded as Rivarossi. In any event, not a 1:80 model. Those were earlier in Rivarossi history.

[Joseph_Pestell]

18 minutes ago, pH said:

Not all were ‘Americaines’ - 140 were built in Canada by Montreal Locomotive Works and Canadian Locomotive Company. 
 

The only SNCF steam locos I ever saw in action were a couple of 141Rs at Mulhouse in 1966. 

Canada is part of America, but not part of the United States. Let's not fall for Trumpian inaccuracies of language. Perhaps MUSGA does not sound as good as MAGA.

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, pH said:

Not all were ‘Americaines’ - 140 were built in Canada by Montreal Locomotive Works and Canadian Locomotive Company. 
 

The only SNCF steam locos I ever saw in action were a couple of 141Rs at Mulhouse in 1966. 

That's quite true though seventeen of the hundred 141Rs built by the Montreal Locomotive Works never made it to France; they went down with the MV Belpamela (along with nine of her crew)  on April 11th 1947. They were still nicknamed 'Les Brave Americaines' by the cheminots and at least most of them actually were built in the USA; the 140Cs were known as 'Les Anglais' even though well over half of them were built in Glasgow. (340 in the class, 215 built by NBL in Glasgow and 55 built in Lancashire during or immediately after the First World War, the first 70 had been built in France in 1913, six of the NBL locos were lost at sea when the ship tranporting them was torpedoed) 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Pacific231G

[sncf231e]

"Les 141 R ces braves americaines" is also the title of a French book on these locomotives.

By the way: Since I like the 141R I also have an 0 gauge and 1 gauge version:

 

 

 

Regards

Fred

Edited November 29, 2020 by sncf231e

[Pacific231G]

17 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Canada is part of America, but not part of the United States. Let's not fall for Trumpian inaccuracies of language. Perhaps MUSGA does not sound as good as MAGA.

Trump is wrong about almost everything but in this he wasn't being innacurate.

Canada is part of North America (as is Mexico) but, in my experience, Canadians really hate being called Americans (I can't say I blame them).

In common usage in both N. American and British dialects of Englsh- which is all our language is based on- American has for a long time meant a citizen of the USA. If you want to refer to them together then North American would be the accepted usage as in NORAD, NAFTA etc. ,  

Lumping Canadians in with US citizens as "Americans" would be as innacurate as describing citiizens of the Irish republic as British because they inhabit the second largest of the British Isles. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Pacific231G

[Allegheny1600]

Glorious machines, I am very fond of them.

There was a handful of them loaned to Greece in the early 1970s amazingly, I don’t know if they travelled any further afield.

Just going OT for a minute, I saw a TAB Gerard model of a CC6500 on French eBay earlier today, are they a prized maker, please? The seller seemed to think so, ISTR he wanted €350 or more!

Merci bien,

John.

[sncf231e]

TAB Gerard was known for making good quality and realistic models already early in the fifties. At the time they were made they were considered the top of the market and having much better quality and looking much better than Jouef etc.. ANTAL, PMP etc were others making (metal) quality trains in that period. Now they are collected by collectors of early French H0.

Regards

Fred

[TravisM]

Reviving this thread but I wish someone such as Jouef (Hornby) would release a updated model of a 141R to the same degree detail as Hornby and Bachmann’s offerings, and hopefully at a similar price.

[Metropolitan H]

 

A departure from Calais - 8th April 1969. The first day of the Hoverlloyd "Hovercraft" cross-channei service. We went as foot passengers on the first departure from Pegwell Bay - to watch the trains.

 

I too like 141Rs.

 

Regards

chris H

[Gordonwis]

7 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Reviving this thread but I wish someone such as Jouef (Hornby) would release a updated model of a 141R to the same degree detail as Hornby and Bachmann’s offerings, and hopefully at a similar price.

 

Well I grew up with the 1960s Jouef  and 1970s Lima 141R models ... , and have a later generation Rivarossi 141R. I've also seen the Hornby Jouef 141Rs in action, so I'd be interested to know why the latter two models don't count as 'up to date'

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, Gordonwis said:

 

Well I grew up with the 1960s Jouef  and 1970s Lima 141R models ... , and have a later generation Rivarossi 141R. I've also seen the Hornby Jouef 141Rs in action, so I'd be interested to know why the latter two models don't count as 'up to date'

From reading other people’s posts and reviews, the Rivarossi and Jouef (both Hornby brands) share the same mouldings, and possibly are over 20 years old.  I suppose we’ve been spoilt over the recent years with correct profiled wheels with reduced flanges, so those “pizza cutter” wheels don’t do it for me.

[Andy Hayter]

I don't think you are looking at the latest generation models.

https://www.modelisme-ferroviaire-rouen.fr/pratique-et-tutoriels/141-r/

 

[Gordonwis]

On 19/07/2021 at 02:55, jools1959 said:

From reading other people’s posts and reviews, the Rivarossi and Jouef (both Hornby brands) share the same mouldings, and possibly are over 20 years old.  I suppose we’ve been spoilt over the recent years with correct profiled wheels with reduced flanges, so those “pizza cutter” wheels don’t do it for me.

 

The Hornby Jouef examples are new tooling since at the oldest 2005 unless I'm much mistaken and include digital sound etc - a far cry from the older versions

[dick rowland]

Announced recently by Arnold for N 1:160. Even though I am a DB modeller, I am seriously tempted.

[45669]

What's not to like about 141Rs!  One of my prized possessions is a cabside number plate from a 141R.

[Gordonwis]

16 hours ago, dick rowland said:

Announced recently by Arnold for N 1:160. Even though I am a DB modeller, I am seriously tempted.

 

Base a layout in the Saar area, where 141Rs (including 73 which went to Bressingham...) interworked with DB loks till the end of steam

[dick rowland]

One may just make it to the Moselbahn, the Cochem area. Rule 1 applies!

[sncf231e]

In Driehuis Junction the 141R also meets a German engine:

 

 

Regards

Fred

[hmrspaul]

My teenage photos 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e25c92880

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e3b31e88c

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e22c6453c

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e3a30a29d

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e3b118536

 

Paul

[jamie92208]

141R's were the first SNCF locos I ever saw in April 67, at the head of our boat train at Calais Maritime double headed to Amiens wher an Electric took over. The return journey we had two more from Amiens to Boulogne.  They made a great impression on a 14 yr old on his first trip abroad.  The 3 weeks I spent there are one of the reasons that we now live in France as I learned to communicate in French in that time. 

 

Jamie

Edited March 7 by jamie92208

[Gordonwis]

On 23/07/2021 at 18:11, hmrspaul said:

My teenage photos 

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e25c92880

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e3b31e88c

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e22c6453c

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e3a30a29d

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sncflocomotives/e3b118536

 

Paul

 

I notice you don't specify the class of some locos. The 0-10-0T locos are 050TE (except the one in picture named 'Locomotive shed I' ) which is an 050TQ. the 2-10-2T is a 151TQ. The unspecified  'Bo-Bo' diesel at Ventimiglia is a 66000. The Paris Nord 2-8-2 tanks were (famously) 141TC, and the B-B electrics pictured are BB16500 class

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Gordonwis

[5944]

If anybody wants their own 141R, the partly overhauled remains of 1207 and 1332 are for sale in Switzerland.

 

https://www.railpassion.fr/materiel-actualites-rp/des-mikado-francaises-en-suisse/

 

I believe there's enough for one complete loco there, plus a spare set of frames, driving wheels and other parts, the rest were sold for scrap when the previous owner went bankrupt. I don't believe they're cheap though!