Miserable Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I'm building an MSE Sykes Banner Repeater kit and making it 'work'. My question is; Did banner repeaters of this sort exist before electricity came along? All the prototype photos I can find are of electric ones, it would be ace to know how mechanical versions were done, if there were such things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserable Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 All ok, I found a photo at last! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rail-Online Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Could they not have been worked by battery cells rather than mains electricity? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I see no reason in principle why a banner could not be designed to be worked by a signal wire, but the railsigns website seems to suggest that they were electrically worked from the outset. The is a fail safe issue to consider in the design - it is a wrong side failure for a banner to be off whilst the repeated signal is at danger. Whilst it is still possible, I think the risk of this is a lot lower if it's done electrically using a solenoid rather than mechanically, and probably much lower still with the modern LED types. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserable Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 Since there's no chance of getting even the tiniest of motors in there it'll have to be mechanical to make it 'work' I guess... I found this photo somewhere deep in the RMWeb site. It may/seems to show mechanical operation (such a shame the bottom of the post is not in view). Could be a dangling cable though. At least if the control rod looks like whatever the black rod or cable then it's protypicalsih. It answers the finial question I had though. Also this is the only one I found that has a butt. Anyway, I'm going to base the model on this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillCav Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I doubt the adjacent location cases would be there if the banner were mechanical. There doesn't seem to be any other reason for them - no sign if track circuit leads from them etc. Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2020 16 hours ago, Miserable said: Since there's no chance of getting even the tiniest of motors in there it'll have to be mechanical to make it 'work' I guess... I found this photo somewhere deep in the RMWeb site. It may/seems to show mechanical operation (such a shame the bottom of the post is not in view). Could be a dangling cable though. At least if the control rod looks like whatever the black rod or cable then it's protypicalsih. It answers the finial question I had though. Also this is the only one I found that has a butt. Anyway, I'm going to base the model on this one. Looks like a standard electric banner to me and I suspect that 'black rod' is the cable. With all those LM pattern location cupboards near the signal it would inevitably be battery powered. Electrically worked banner signals were around before WW1 so they have a long history. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted December 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) Somewhere here on rmweb someone has modelled one. Edited December 2, 2020 by ikcdab Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted December 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2020 There are various other topics about banner repeaters here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/search/&q=banner&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=35 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2020 5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: Electrically worked banner signals were around before WW1 so they have a long history. The Sykes banner signal which is solenoid operated was patented c1909. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2020 22 hours ago, Miserable said: Since there's no chance of getting even the tiniest of motors in there it'll have to be mechanical to make it 'work' I guess... Solenoid under the baseboard with operating rod inside the post? 5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: I suspect that 'black rod' is the cable. Probably a lazy job. Didn't want to take the head off to renew the cable through the post. 5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: With all those LM pattern location cupboards near the signal it would inevitably be battery powered. All LMS standard cupboards. Two nearest the signal are main cable terminations. The third one would have the operating relays and batteries for the signal. Note that the signal is oil lit. Ones on mains electricity were usually lit by an internal 12 volt or 110 volt lamp and have a solid convex back cover. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserable Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 4 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: Solenoid under the baseboard with operating rod inside the post? Probably a lazy job. Didn't want to take the head off to renew the cable through the post. All LMS standard cupboards. Two nearest the signal are main cable terminations. The third one would have the operating relays and batteries for the signal. Note that the signal is oil lit. Ones on mains electricity were usually lit by an internal 12 volt or 110 volt lamp and have a solid convex back cover. A rod up the post isn't practical - too many corners (3) allowing flexing, or a lot of un-prototypical cranks, hence my wondering if there were a mechanical variant. The cable hanging like like is the camouflage for the operating rod I was looking for ;-) If anyone asks, "it's a cable - look I've got a photo!" The kit is principally for the oil (external) lamp flavour GWR, which is what I'm after, at least lighting that is easy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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