Modelling on a teenager's budget in OO.

[jcm@gwr]

13 minutes ago, tubs01 said:

Thanks, I know it's nothing to worry about but I just panic. I'm going to replace my tools and brushes just to stop me worrying, which I know is stupid but if I don't I'll just keep on worrying 

 

Washing your tools would be a better option (and cheaper)

You've already suggested you are on a budget, not surprising,

you are still young and don't have an income!

Only buy tools when you need to replace broken or worn out

tools, use your money for more models.

[Barclay]

Tubs this is really nothing to worry about and certainly not a reason to ditch your tools.

 

Back in the 80's I did some Environmental Science modules whilst at University, and did a lengthy study on urban lead pollution. The thing about Lead is that its effects are cumulative, so if you lived next to a busy road in the days when there was lead in petrol, perhaps, there would be a chance that you could suffer from the effects over a period of time. Same with lead water pipes as others have said - it's not ideal but it's still not a legal requirement to replace them. The very fact that this manufacturer was allowed to use lead in the model tells us it's not critical. You can still buy leaded solder, which most of us use because it's better, and I have a big sheet of lead that I cut bits off for weights for wagons and loco's etc. Wash your hands after handling it, absolutely, but unless you are handling it literally every day and then sucking your fingers it won't harm you.

[The Johnster]

Wash your hands, keep the tools clean, be aware of the problem, but don’t let it prevent you handling or working with this very useful material, and don’t obsess about it; that way lies OCD that adversely affects your life!  
 

There are safety concerns in modelling; some of our adhesives and paints are very nasty and highly inflammable chemicals the give off fumes and there are even fire risks from overheated motors or electronic components.  Tools have cutting edges that can cause injury if used carelessly, especially power tools, and every aspect of soldering is lethal.  But must of us have not yet managed to kill ourselves with the hobby...

 

Work in a ventilated area, use protective gear especially goggles and dust masks if you are cutting with power tools, and provide yourself with adequate lighting, and keep a basic first aid kit in the railway room so you don’t bleed on the models. 

[CKPR]

Pretty much what everyone has said - passing contact with and exposure to lead isn't a problem as long as you wash your hands and don't eat whilst modelling. Aside from the risk of injury from blades and soldering irons, the real nasties on the workbench are expoxy resin and Miliput as these can quickly cause very unpleasant forms of dermatitis in some people. Again, always washing your hands after using them and maybe wearing disposable latex decorators gloves is all that's required to be safe. You could wear these gloves when handling lead and white metal but a good scrub with detergent and then soap is really all you need to do. 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by CKPR

[tubs01]

Since we seem to be on the topic of safety, is it a bit over the top for me to sometimes wear a mask when filing plastic since it generates a lot of plastic dust?

[The Johnster]

No, it’s good practice.  If you are worried about dust, btw, leave a vacuum cleaner running with the nozzle near (but not too near) the workbench as an extractor fan, but be considerate about the noise.  
 

With googles or visors there is a balance to be had between eye protection an clear visibility.  Another thing to be aware of but not obsessive about is fumes from glue, thinners, some paints and rattlecan propellant and their effect on tour balance and mental state.  I go outside into the front garden to use rattlecans.  
 

Most of this stuff is pretty much common sense and thinking things through before you do them, something you’ve proved yourself to be well on top of by starting this thread, and good modelling discipline anyway. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by The Johnster

[CKPR]

Filling cast

On 26/01/2021 at 12:08, The Johnster said:

No, it’s good practice.

Doublely so if you're working with resin kits or parts - the recommendation is to do any filing outside whilst wearing a proper respirator mask (I regard resin castings as one of the minor works of the Devil himself, so I never have to follow this advice !).

Edited January 30, 2021 by CKPR

[6990WitherslackHall]

2 hours ago, tubs01 said:

Since we seem to be on the topic of safety, is it a bit over the top for me to sometimes wear a mask when filing plastic since it generates a lot of plastic dust?

Not at all. I sometimes wear a mask when doing my models.

[Ravenser]

I've never worn a mask when filing plastic, and I've handled lead when sticking it in as weights for decades. I'm still here.

 

But the greater danger with lead is it's corrosion product:  white lead, a nasty white toxic powder . The Victorians and Edwardians used it as the white pigment in paint, which is why you are very strongly advised to wear a mask when sanding back paintwork on an old house. Inhaling white lead dust will do you no good at all. This may sound a long way from model railways , but a few years back we all got a nasty shock when it was realised that lead shot glued in with PVA as weight corrode and expand. Not only did that do your model no good , the corrosion product is - white lead. I now paint any exposed lead  (eg weight under a wagon chassis) just in case

 

Resin I'm seriously frightened of , like CKPR , and will only work outside , and wash the tools and workpiece . The dust does your lungs no good at all, apparently , so you DON'T want it loose inside living rooms etc.

 

I do wear a mask when painting with a spray can, as inhaling paint and solvent won't do your lungs any good either. Cellulose paints are the nastiest, apparently. Acrylics have the poorest covering power, adhesion and don't much like being thinned, but they are pretty safe.

 

Also on the list to watch : solvents. You probably don't need to worry about solvent fumes turning carcenogenic if inhaled through a lighted cigarette but you should ensure good ventilation. The classic sign you haven't and have been breathing them in is a dull headache. (The extreme case of inhaling solvents is of course "glue-sniffing"). 

 

Inhaling the fumes from solder and solder flux isn't that wonderful either. I am nervous about chemicals , and have never really dared to use anything stronger than the mildest Carrs Yellow Label flux. But the flux will do a traction of the harm caused by touching the hot part of a soldering iron...

 

Superglue has a hidden danger .  It's technically cyanoacrylate , and when heated strongly gives off  traces of cyanide gas.. NEVER solder anything after superglue has been applied to it  (eg whitemetal castings attached to an etched brass kit)

 

Always keep your fingers behind the blade - that way , if the blade slips, your fingers aren't in its path. If is extremely easy to forget this in the heat of the moment.

 

Oh, and wear safety goggles if using a slitting disc in a minidrill. If the disc shatters on the workpiece your eyes  need protection

 

Hopefully we haven't all put you off...

 

On a more cheerful note, emery boards and used by girls for their nails make a cheap flexible very fine file , and they can be shaped to get into corners with a pair of scissors . You can't do that with a Swiss file. The 4 sided nail blocks sold in chemists are also very handy as ultra fine smoothing , such as rubbing down paintwork. They are far easier and cheaper to source than ultrafine emery papers (I know you are on a budget but do not try to half-inch these off a girl at school. "Hell hath no fury like... " and all that)

Edited January 26, 2021 by Ravenser

[tubs01]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

I've never worn a mask when filing plastic, and I've handled lead when sticking it in as weights for decades. I'm still here.

 

But the greater danger with lead is it's corrosion product:  white lead, a nasty white toxic powder . The Victorians and Edwardians used it as the white pigment in paint, which is why you are very strongly advised to wear a mask when sanding back paintwork on an old house. Inhaling white lead dust will do you no good at all. This may sound a long way from model railways , but a few years back we all got a nasty shock when it was realised that lead shot glued in with PVA as weight corrode and expand. Not only did that do your model no good , the corrosion product is - white lead. I now paint any exposed lead  (eg weight under a wagon chassis) just in case

 

Resin I'm seriously frightened of , like CKPR , and will only work outside , and wash the tools and workpiece . The dust does your lungs no good at all, apparently , so you DON'T want it loose inside living rooms etc.

 

I do wear a mask when painting with a spray can, as inhaling paint and solvent won't do your lungs any good either. Cellulose paints are the nastiest, apparently. Acrylics have the poorest covering power, adhesion and don't much like being thinned, but they are pretty safe.

 

Also on the list to watch : solvents. You probably don't need to worry about solvent fumes turning carcenogenic if inhaled through a lighted cigarette but you should ensure good ventilation. The classic sign you haven't and have been breathing them in is a dull headache. (The extreme case of inhaling solvents is of course "glue-sniffing"). 

 

Inhaling the fumes from solder and solder flux isn't that wonderful either. I am nervous about chemicals , and have never really dared to use anything stronger than the mildest Carrs Yellow Label flux. But the flux will do a traction of the harm caused by touching the hot part of a soldering iron...

 

Superglue has a hidden danger .  It's technically cyanoacrylate , and when heated strongly gives off  traces of cyanide gas.. NEVER solder anything after superglue has been applied to it  (eg whitemetal castings attached to an etched brass kit)

 

Always keep your fingers behind the blade - that way , if the blade slips, your fingers aren't in its path. If is extremely easy to forget this in the heat of the moment.

 

Oh, and wear safety goggles if using a slitting disc in a minidrill. If the disc shatters on the workpiece your eyes  need protection

 

Hopefully we haven't all put you off...

 

On a more cheerful note, emery boards and used by girls for their nails make a cheap flexible very fine file , and they can be shaped to get into corners with a pair of scissors . You can't do that with a Swiss file. The 4 sided nail blocks sold in chemists are also very handy as ultra fine smoothing , such as rubbing down paintwork. They are far easier and cheaper to source than ultrafine emery papers (I know you are on a budget but do not try to half-inch these off a girl at school. "Hell hath no fury like... " and all that)

It's a good job I haven't got the money for anything resin! But in all seriousness, I had no idea about lead, not sure if it would affect me much anyways though since I stay away from lead and whitemetal as much as possible.

[tubs01]

As for washing my tools, would putting them in a sink filled with water and hand soap for a while be good enough? I haven't really got round to cleaning them since I can't be bothered yet

[Huw Griffiths]

I'd be wary about using water etc to clean tools - a lot of tools are made of steel, which rusts.

 

Some people keep separate files etc for working with different materials.

 

When files are normally used with one material (or a few that are very similar), file cards (essentially a fine wire brush) can be very useful for unclogging them. I've also found pencil erasers useful (especially the plastic type), with materials that don't actually stick to files. (I've found they work with brass, wood, various plastics - unfortunately, whitemetal sometimes seems a bit too keen to stick in files. I don'r have any experience of working with pewter - which is often used these days as a replacement for whitemetal.)

 

As for emery boards (and the rather more useful foam cored versions). it might be worth checking places like Poundland, Wilko and possibly Asda.

 

Other options for filing / sanding plastics include sandpaper / wet-and-dry - fixed to a flat block of wood (can be useful for straightening edges - as can a cheap whetstone, kept well away from oil!

 

You might also wish to consider trying ink erasers (a lot of them have got fine abrasive particles suspended in them) or synthetic rubber abrasive blocks like Garryflex or "track rubbers". These can be cut into smaller pieces to get into restricted spaces.

 

Some model shops also sell sets of shaped plastic formers, to which you can stick bits of fine abrasive paper - to get into restricted spaces on models / kits. There is, of course, a cut-price alternative, which I've found very effective. The Works (probably also other places) sell packs of assorted plastic palette knives - to which it's easy to fix small bits of sandpaper / wet-and-dry. You could fix the abrasive paper in place using double sided carpet tape (Screwfix and Toolstation both sell this stuff) - but I prefer double sided foam fixing pads (try Poundland!), either in sheets of small pads or in roll form. Stronger versions of these pads are also available - often in black - believe it or not, I've even seen some sold for fixing number plates!

 

So far, I've been using very small bits of abrasive paper - smaller than the individual pads from the sheets - and trimmed both to shape - actually to clean up a model tram I was thinking of using for a "cake box" entry. They've worked very well indeed - and I don't doubt that larger bits of abrasive used in this way would also work.

 

Anyway, that's more than enough from me - I'm sure you've got far better things to do than read my ramblings!

 

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

[tubs01]

Jinty came today! So I present the engines of the Culban Valley Light Railway.

[tubs01]

Some more pictures Notice the poor box design

[The Johnster]

Probably better than the packaging for the new Bachmann 94xx, which you can't get the loco out of without breaking the cab steps apparently...  At least you can get your fingers in there!  Keep an eye out on 'Bay for Triang 3MT 2-6-2T to use the chassis for your Airfix 4MT mogul.  Not scale and the motor will be visible but good experience that will take you further up the learning curve!

[BernardTPM]

I have to admit that the 1978 body looks pretty good with modern paint jobs and darkened wheels.

[tubs01]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Probably better than the packaging for the new Bachmann 94xx, which you can't get the loco out of without breaking the cab steps apparently...  At least you can get your fingers in there!  Keep an eye out on 'Bay for Triang 3MT 2-6-2T to use the chassis for your Airfix 4MT mogul.  Not scale and the motor will be visible but good experience that will take you further up the learning curve!

Hate to say it, but it's actually an 0-6-0, mostly because I just wanted to see what an 0-6-0 standard would look like, especially with the overhang

[tubs01]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

I have to admit that the 1978 body looks pretty good with modern paint jobs and darkened wheels.

It's a shame that the Jinty is no longer available. It seems in recent years that Hornby could care less for the Railroad range. The SECR ex-Thomas is now the only Railroad 0-6-0 available without buying a set

[tubs01]

Thinking about getting a dublo or wrenn R1 tank shell and putting it on a Hornby 0-6-0 chassis, does anyone know if much modification would be needed to get it to sit properly?

[Gibbo675]

18 hours ago, tubs01 said:

Hate to say it, but it's actually an 0-6-0, mostly because I just wanted to see what an 0-6-0 standard would look like, especially with the overhang

Hi Tubs,

 

The LMS had proposed to build some 2F 0-6-0 tender goods locomotives but built the 2MT 2-6-0's instead.

 

Here is a weight diagram of the locomotive which you could adapt for a class 4 version, it looks like a small LMS version of the Q1. If the locomotive was to be an 0-6-0 it would likely have inside cylinders as without a front truck it would be very unstable at speed. I would think that you could reasonable easily build a convincing version using a Jinty chassis and a Dapol kit.

 

 

Gibbo.

[CKPR]

On 27/01/2021 at 01:19, Huw Griffiths said:

I'd be wary about using water etc to clean tools - a lot of tools are made of steel, which rusts.

 

Cleaning tools is another of the myriad uses of WD40 !

[tubs01]

I think the wheels on my hatchette mk1s might have white lead? they look similar in colour to the weight and they have these weird spots of white stuff

[jcm@gwr]

I doubt it, it's more likely to be a corrosion issue because they 

are either aluminium, or a form of mazak. Lead would not be

considered for wheels, no strength and too heavy.

 

All relatively harmless, unless you are daft enough to start

licking them! (which you won't, as you've already shown yourself

to be quite sensible)

[Ravenser]

1 hour ago, tubs01 said:

I think the wheels on my hatchette mk1s might have white lead? they look similar in colour to the weight and they have these weird spots of white stuff

 

I think the Hachette Mk1 is Eastern European production, though I'm not sure and can't face hunting through a 50+ page thread to check.

 

If so, there should not be any lead used, cos it's banned for use in toys/models in the EU.

 

China is another matter - I came across a chassis weight in a Hornby 155 which turned out to be chrome-plated lead . Presumably someone in China reckoned that if they chrome-plated the lead no-one would realise they were using a substance prohibited by European regs....

 

Badly produced mazak, with impurities leading to mazak-rot is exactly what you might expect on something built down to a low price.

 

Mazak wheels were certainly used by Hornby Dublo long ago - and early production suffered from poor quality control of the alloy, so wheels are found to have crumbled away. I believe this is largely a pre-war issue , as Meccano Ltd are supposed to have dramatically upgraded their factory's quality control of mazak when engaged on war work between 1939-45

Edited January 31, 2021 by Ravenser

[tubs01]

2 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

I think the Hachette Mk1 is Eastern European production, though I'm not sure and can't face hunting through a 50+ page thread to check.

 

If so, there should not be any lead used, cos it's banned for use in toys/models in the EU.

 

China is another matter - I came across a chassis weight in a Hornby 155 which turned out to be chrome-plated lead . Presumably someone in China reckoned that if they chrome-plated the lead no-one would realise they were using a substance prohibited by European regs....

 

Badly produced mazak, with impurities leading to mazak-rot is exactly what you might expect on something built down to a low price.

 

Mazak wheels were certainly used by Hornby Dublo long ago - and early production suffered from poor quality control of the alloy, so wheels are found to have crumbled away. I believe this is largely a pre-war issue , as Meccano Ltd are supposed to have dramatically upgraded their factory's quality control of mazak when engaged on war work between 1939-45

Strange then, considering the lead weight in the same coach. However if it isn't lead but just looks a lot like lead then I guess I won't end up washing all my things about a million times!