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tubs01
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On 31/12/2020 at 18:08, tubs01 said:

So I've acquired a yellow submarine eurostar and I've got a class 92 on the way plus some LWB boxvans (one of my favourite wagons that Hornby have ever produced) and I really want some container wagons for the 92, but I'm not rich, so has anyone got any cheaper alternatives?

Hi Tubs

 

Container wagons can be done incredibly cheaply. Go to wordsworthmodelrailway.com and download his free containers kit. Print and mount onto card and obtain some cheap coaches. Use the underframes and stick the containers directly onto them. You can use the bodies as camping coaches, grounded bodies or sell on to recoup some money. Not 100% realistic but a few together is impressive. 

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19 hours ago, ianmacc said:

Hi Tubs

 

Container wagons can be done incredibly cheaply. Go to wordsworthmodelrailway.com and download his free containers kit. Print and mount onto card and obtain some cheap coaches. Use the underframes and stick the containers directly onto them. You can use the bodies as camping coaches, grounded bodies or sell on to recoup some money. Not 100% realistic but a few together is impressive. 

I don't have a printer

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19 hours ago, tubs01 said:

I don't have a printer

Ok then you can either buy printed paper containers from someone online or on eBay. Or given they are just large rectangular boxes make them yourself from card and paint them in a basic single colour. You can cut out logos from magazines etc. for Tesco and so on.  Even the labels on some fruit provides such as Fyffes or Geest! This is what triang Hornby used to do. 
 

Go back to old school again. I was 14 in the 1990s when there was no internet or associated options so this was the normal way. 

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5 hours ago, ianmacc said:

Ok then you can either buy printed paper containers from someone online or on eBay. Or given they are just large rectangular boxes make them yourself from card and paint them in a basic single colour. You can cut out logos from magazines etc. for Tesco and so on.  Even the labels on some fruit provides such as Fyffes or Geest! This is what triang Hornby used to do. 
 

Go back to old school again. I was 14 in the 1990s when there was no internet or associated options so this was the normal way. 

If you want to add some relief to the sides of the containers, you can order corrugated paper very cheaply online. If you look on YouTube, there are lots of tutorials on how to build containers (they're a popular scenic item for wargamers). This one is for larger than 00 scale, but the principles are much the same.

 

In general, I would thoroughly recommend looking at wargame scenery tutorials, those guys do a lot of budget stuff that's really effective and often very simple.

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On 07/01/2021 at 14:55, tubs01 said:

I don't have a printer

 

But your local library might!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, tubs01 said:

I've ordered a J83 aswell, not an accurate model by any means, but I love it all the same. I'll probably paint the handrails and paint hhe buffer stalks blackR2164B_1577618_Qty1_1.jpg.bfbb691bd70c41a06d97683fe969374f.jpg

 

Or, carve the handrails, pipework on boiler, and smokebox dart off (leave the coal rails for now) and replace them with proper handrail knobs and wire, not expensive from your local model shop when they re-open or even online but of course then you have to factor in  postage.  Now, you'll have to start the building of your tool kit; set of suitable size drill bits and a small hand drill, Dremel can come later, Exacto type knife, set of files to smooth things down.  Check out photos of the prototype, and you might find that there are handrails for the steps just aft of the leading axle.  Drill holes for the lamp irons, and make those up out of Rexel no.13 staples.  Modelu do lamps that fit over these nicely, with 3D printed slots in the bottoms to sit on the irons.  If you can remove the plastic coal from the bunker you can replace it with real coal or simulated that will look much better than the plastic moulding, secured with dilute pva, and if you can't remove the plastic without risk of damaging the model a layer of real coal on top is a worthwhile improvement.  Clear pastic packaging can be cut up for the cab windows which I think are round on the prototype but Hornby made 'em like that because it's easier to tool for.  Card or plastic packaging cut to shape will rectify this, and a piece of wire might be needed as a handle on the water filler cap.

 

Some thicker wire for the pipes on the boiler and bending up to make vacuum pipes and hoses, or maybe you've got some on old Airfix ktis.  If you want a further challege, thin wire over the rear cab windows as coal guards; these are available as etched brass retrofit but I'm trying to save you money, not work!  You can probably source etched brass Cowlairs works plates for the bunker as well, but they will cost so you should probably put that on a future 'round tuit' list.  When you've done all this, you'll need to touch up the paintwork if not go for a complete repaint, which will give you an opportunity to change the livery, but we are having to buy transfers online, paints, brushes, and varnishes now, which are down to how much you are willing to spend as an investemtnt or put on the round tuit list for when youj have more moola.  Don't forget to paint over the shiny axle ends.

 

This is how I began my transition, such as it has been, from RTR train set cash cow to modeller, and is massive fun.  You will of course have destroyed the resale value of your J83, but the model is now a model, not something you got out of a box, and at least as importantly, it is your model, created by you and unique to you.  You will make mistakes, and build models you will later be ashamed of, but you will build skillsets that will be of enormous value to you.  I have, over the years, saved many thousands of beer vouchers by being able to adapt RTR to my needs rather than build kits or scratch models which not look or perform a lot better than what I've done given my limited modelling abilities.  And, should you 'progess' to kit or scratch building, the skillsets you develop in this way will be a very significant payback. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

But your local library might!

 

 

 

 

Or, carve the handrails, pipework on boiler, and smokebox dart off (leave the coal rails for now) and replace them with proper handrail knobs and wire, not expensive from your local model shop when they re-open or even online but of course then you have to factor in  postage.  Now, you'll have to start the building of your tool kit; set of suitable size drill bits and a small hand drill, Dremel can come later, Exacto type knife, set of files to smooth things down.  Check out photos of the prototype, and you might find that there are handrails for the steps just aft of the leading axle.  Drill holes for the lamp irons, and make those up out of Rexel no.13 staples.  Modelu do lamps that fit over these nicely, with 3D printed slots in the bottoms to sit on the irons.  If you can remove the plastic coal from the bunker you can replace it with real coal or simulated that will look much better than the plastic moulding, secured with dilute pva, and if you can't remove the plastic without risk of damaging the model a layer of real coal on top is a worthwhile improvement.  Clear pastic packaging can be cut up for the cab windows which I think are round on the prototype but Hornby made 'em like that because it's easier to tool for.  Card or plastic packaging cut to shape will rectify this, and a piece of wire might be needed as a handle on the water filler cap.

 

Some thicker wire for the pipes on the boiler and bending up to make vacuum pipes and hoses, or maybe you've got some on old Airfix ktis.  If you want a further challege, thin wire over the rear cab windows as coal guards; these are available as etched brass retrofit but I'm trying to save you money, not work!  You can probably source etched brass Cowlairs works plates for the bunker as well, but they will cost so you should probably put that on a future 'round tuit' list.  When you've done all this, you'll need to touch up the paintwork if not go for a complete repaint, which will give you an opportunity to change the livery, but we are having to buy transfers online, paints, brushes, and varnishes now, which are down to how much you are willing to spend as an investemtnt or put on the round tuit list for when youj have more moola.  Don't forget to paint over the shiny axle ends.

 

This is how I began my transition, such as it has been, from RTR train set cash cow to modeller, and is massive fun.  You will of course have destroyed the resale value of your J83, but the model is now a model, not something you got out of a box, and at least as importantly, it is your model, created by you and unique to you.  You will make mistakes, and build models you will later be ashamed of, but you will build skillsets that will be of enormous value to you.  I have, over the years, saved many thousands of beer vouchers by being able to adapt RTR to my needs rather than build kits or scratch models which not look or perform a lot better than what I've done given my limited modelling abilities.  And, should you 'progess' to kit or scratch building, the skillsets you develop in this way will be a very significant payback. 

 

 

Thanks for the very interesting read, always wondered why Hornby didn't make the windows circular. As for handrails, definitely on my to do list for all my locos. Dapol also do very cheap packs of 50 vacuum pipes, which I think will last me for a while. I might as well do the coal since I have a bit still left over. Thanks

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21 hours ago, tubs01 said:

I've ordered a J83 aswell, not an accurate model by any means, but I love it all the same. I'll probably paint the handrails and paint hhe buffer stalks blackR2164B_1577618_Qty1_1.jpg.bfbb691bd70c41a06d97683fe969374f.jpg

Hi Tubs,

 

If I were you I would paint the handrails rather than carve them off if you have ordered a new model, it would be best to practice carving off handrails and fitting wire ones on an old model that requires renovation than risk damaging the paint job of a new model. Once you know that you can do the job to a good standard then by all means give it a go.

 

A question I have is what tools do you have, perhaps you could list them or post a photograph of them, and if there any items that might be useful then we could make suggestions of what would be useful and how to use the tools.

 

The other thing I would say is if you have an idea and you are unsure about how to go about the job then ask the question and we could advise a best method rather than you finding out the hard way by making an expensive mistake. Techniques that are required are not always obvious should you not know, again it is best to find out the easy way by being given ideas and methods of working beforehand.

 

Have a look on the threads of those of us that have posted you will see models taking shape and it will give you knowledge of the steps you will have to follow with your own projects. I post photographs and descriptions and I can certainly send a PM to explain in greater depth should you be interested in anything on my thread, I'm sure others would do the same.

 

A good way to learn is to scratch build wagons from plasticard for if you make a mistake you can remove the part and make a new piece. You will learn to follow drawings, make a plan about how things fit together and the order in which they are to be assembled, you will also learn to paint them when you have finished.

 

Wagon underframes can be found on eBay in the job lot and spares or repair section, you can modify them or just make new bodies that you could even swap about. This is a much cheaper way to learn your skills than working upon locomotives which you can move onto once your skills have improved.

 

Gibbo.

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5 hours ago, simontaylor484 said:

You can get a pretty decent printer for less than £100 that you can connect to your phone by wifi if you wanted to prinr scalescenes stuff 

No offense but I'm not going to spend loads on a printer just for some paper boxes

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Hi Tubs,

An easy way to fix the wrong windows is to use a piece of plasticard to fill the hole where the front window is. Just put the plasticard behind the window and draw round the inside to get the correct shape. Remembering that the line you have drawn will be a little smaller than the hole. Cut round the outside of the marking on the plasticard. Then apply to the window from the back. It should be a little tight and need fine tuning with a file to fit right. Once that's done Mark out the centre of where the window should be and hand drill a hole for the window there. Do not use an electric drill as it is too easy to make a mistake imho. Once you have done the first fillet you can use that for a template to make the one for the other side. Glue in place and then use a little filler to hide any gaps. I prefer to use 1mm plasticard for doing this as it is rigid enough to work with but also still flexible.

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On 08/01/2021 at 17:35, Chrisr40 said:

Wasnt there a really good thread on here a few years ago about building a layout for under one hundred pounds ? I have searched but havent turned it up yet.

Chris

This one? I've found that layout a real inspiration. It shows how much you can do as a beginner without a whole lot of tools and a massive budget. To this day, I sometimes play around with modifying and repainting cheapo wagons just as an exercise.

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Hello Tubs. Glad your finding your way around RM Web and the rest of the modelling community. 

Reading your blog/thread reminds me of how I started out... with a board under my bed and my Hornby Mallard and coaches going round for ages. Buying a small engine or coaches was great fun but my collection often took months to expand. Small items were bought. Wagon here or there... its all fun and great to see you taking the time out to enjoy it all. 

As much as some here might wish you well, some ideas are already proving to be quite complex for what is a basic idea. Your already smart enough to see what you want and know when to save for extra items you can get. 

But from someone who's tread your path and waits for you to follow some advice: 

1. Try to go digital as soon as you can. Small analogue engines are cheap as they can now only be used so much. They are fun to get interest and get started but your someone already showing a great and deep interest. They will be more costly to convert. If you can get a basic digital controller and convert engines to it, your set up to enjoy a collection with things that can last a lot longer. 

2. Think of what you want to get - if you want to get things you like and its a mixed collection then enjoy - otherwise try and get engines that compliment each other. Your layout can then plan around those. 

But otherwise have fun and always ask for advice... I do wonder if someone here has a spare/old set like a dynamis... 

We are always here to help and see where you go from here. 

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23 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Hello Tubs. Glad your finding your way around RM Web and the rest of the modelling community. 

Reading your blog/thread reminds me of how I started out... with a board under my bed and my Hornby Mallard and coaches going round for ages. Buying a small engine or coaches was great fun but my collection often took months to expand. Small items were bought. Wagon here or there... its all fun and great to see you taking the time out to enjoy it all. 

As much as some here might wish you well, some ideas are already proving to be quite complex for what is a basic idea. Your already smart enough to see what you want and know when to save for extra items you can get. 

But from someone who's tread your path and waits for you to follow some advice: 

1. Try to go digital as soon as you can. Small analogue engines are cheap as they can now only be used so much. They are fun to get interest and get started but your someone already showing a great and deep interest. They will be more costly to convert. If you can get a basic digital controller and convert engines to it, your set up to enjoy a collection with things that can last a lot longer. 

2. Think of what you want to get - if you want to get things you like and its a mixed collection then enjoy - otherwise try and get engines that compliment each other. Your layout can then plan around those. 

But otherwise have fun and always ask for advice... I do wonder if someone here has a spare/old set like a dynamis... 

We are always here to help and see where you go from here. 

Thanks, yeah I'm sort of inbetween a 'proper' modeller and train set kind of person. Don't really care much for digital however, analogue does everything I need it to. I definitely know what I want to do, but it's just a problem of my interests going here, there and everywhere. One week it's modern electrics, next week it's the early 90s, then the next it's the last days of steam. That's really why I want to try and make the layout as historically vague as I can. But I know one thing, I am glad to know about rmweb, it's surprising how nice everyone is, even if I have had one or two bad experiences. Definitely different to the american railfan community.

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I suspect that analogue is all you can afford anyway for now, and that your smaller older locos are not suitable for DCC, and I'm content with DC on my own layout, but David Blackhat's advice is well meant and serious.  It is advantageous to adopt DCC at as early a point in your modelling career as you  can, though this may not be yet.  When you are working, and hopefully earning disposable income, will be the time, but the earlier the better.  Of course, should you decide to stay with DC all this becomes irrelevant, but what you don't want to do is to build up a large number of locos that are either not DCC ready or which are unsuitable to be converted and then decide to go DCC.  It has more advantages the larger and more complext your layouts become, but converting a large collection of items at once or over a short period will be epensive, and it is usually cheaper to buy DCC fitted locos in the first place than chipping, and perhaps adding TTS to 'DCC ready' analogue locos. 

 

Don't dismiss DCC out of hand; it can make the wiring of a complex layout much easier, and with less joints to fail, more reliable.  It delivers a constant 12vdc to the locos, which adjust the power to the motor on board, so the constant full voltage is a major bonus for reliable pickup and good  slow running, and you are easily able to use 'untethered' control and be more mobile about your layout; viewing trains from different angles while retaining full control of them is a major advantage of DCC.  It is, when you are better off, worthy of your consideration; you come across as a sensible sort of chap and I am sure you will make the correct decision for your needs.  Cwmdimbath, as you will know if you have checked it out on Layout Topics, is a pretty simple track plan, and I hand operate turnouts, but have Dapol working signals.  Controlling this relatively quiet backwater and operating turnouts and signals is not onerous, but I would be looking at motorised turnouts and live frogs if the layout were not very much more complex, and if you have motorised turnouts the electrical simplicity of DCC becomes more advantageous.

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The other thing I will add, from experience, is that switching to DCC before you have a 'proper' layout can be a very frustrating experience. Using Hornby point clips works, but as the rails are always live it is very easy to get a short circuit (which on some systems means the controller shuts down and takes about 30 seconds to reset, with all locos instanly grinding to a halt). The other issue is that set-track points, especially the Hornby variety, have large insulfrogs. DCC requires excellent pickup at all times unless you have fitted stay-alives, so short wheelbase locos operating on DCC over Hornby set-track points can be a very frustrating experience.

 

I know that any experiments with DCC are long in the future, but bare in mind that retrofitting DCC to a basic DC 'trainset' has its drawbacks. My advice would be that while you still have a layout designed for a basic DC supply, stick with the basic DC supply. You will also find that most of the advantages of DCC do not exist on simple layouts, with the option of sound being the most obvious exception, as well as smoother runnning for modern locos (although as I understand it most of your fleet is older, so again DCC could cause more problems than it solves without prior modifications to pickups, etc.).

 

I can't say from experience how good DCC is on a layout designed for it, because I haven't built one yet. I think that the theoretical advantages are well documented and I hope that the layout I'm currently building, which has been designed for DCC from the outset, will take better advantage of the system, but for small or simple layouts I will definitely be sticking to DC in the future.

 

Note the use of inverted commas around the words 'proper' and 'trainset'. All layouts are trainsets of one form or another and there is nothing wrong with watching trains go around a loop of track - that's the simple magic of model railways in its purest form. However, I'm sure you will appreciate that there are differences in the wiring of individual layouts to suit their function. In my opinion, if you want to get the best out of a layout, you need to design the wiring with the type of power supply in mind.

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