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Mashima 1020 for EM gauge Jinty


Guest WM183
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Hi all.

I mean, the title says it. Is a Mashima 1020 - linked to a decent gearbox from High Level - sufficient for a 4mm scale Jinty in a Comet chassis?

My first EM gauge engine is born!

Amanda

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I would choose that combination. Excellent motor/gearbox combination - I've used several in (GWR) pannier tanks.

 

I think your question shouldn't have been asked in card structure forum by the way - better answers elsewhere!

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1 minute ago, Tim V said:

I think your question shouldn't have been asked in card structure forum by the way - better answers elsewhere!

 

I've just re-homed it. It may not be the best place until further details emerge.

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I'm doing such a conversion, slowly, using a Comet chassis and various other components.

Beware the position of the rear drivers and cab/firebox. Mine uses the bespoke gearbox off the HL Jinty chassis which demands a larger motor than the one you are proposing to use.

If you are going to use a standard HL gearbox you may need an extender.

 

20201201_122400.jpg

Edited by PenrithBeacon
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It depends what you want to use the Jinty for. The M1020 is a little on the small size for heavy work in 4mm scale, however, if all it is likely to do is light shunting or pilot work (their main task on the prototype) or powering a passenger pull & push (or similar) train, it will be fine. Like all the late-lamented Mashima 10xx series motors it is an excellent slow speed runner with a free-running gearbox (as all HL ones are).

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I have a Comet chassis kit, Brassmasters detailing kit, and the aforementioned 1020 motor. I need to get the gearbox and wheels yet. I have a set of wheels for a 45xx, perhaps i will see if anyone in the Wanted area would like a trade!

Looking forward to finally building an EM engine. I am going to just spring the center axle and leave the others rigid; should run at least as well as the Bachmann system, which is to say... pretty well indeed.

 

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1 minute ago, bécasse said:

It depends what you want to use the Jinty for. The M1020 is a little on the small size for heavy work in 4mm scale, however, if all it is likely to do is light shunting or pilot work (their main task on the prototype) or powering a passenger pull & push (or similar) train, it will be fine. Like all the late-lamented Mashima 10xx series motors it is an excellent slow speed runner with a free-running gearbox (as all HL ones are).

 

I am lucky enough to have gotten a handful of 10 series Mashima can motors when I was doing American N scale brass repairs a lot, and still have a few. I also have a small Mashima open frame thing - I am unsure what model it is, but it runs a treat, strong little thing - and would like to use them for something, if I can. I have a small flywheel for my 1020 too, which I figure will do no harm if it does no good!

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18 minutes ago, WM183 said:


Looking forward to finally building an EM engine. I am going to just spring the center axle and leave the others rigid; should run at least as well as the Bachmann system, which is to say... pretty well indeed.

 

The one that I’ll be re-chassising has already had an EM conversion with Ultrascale drop in wheel set in the Bachmann chassis, it runs very well like that.  Not trying to discourage you from building the Comet chassis, but just thought I’d mention that rewheeling the Bachmann chassis with either Ultrascale or Gibson wheels is also an option.

 

If you do go with the Comet chassis, I’d consider flexichas style compensation rather than the two fixed, one sprung axles approach.

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If the wait for Ultrascale wheels wasn't prohibitively long I would use them. However, it is, so I won't. I do want to try a brass chassis, and all the work it entails, so I can have the experience of doing it. I plan to make my own spacers from some EMGS spacer stock brass, as the chassis kit I have has OO spacers (I got it from ebay in a lot of bits awhile ago, it's an older kit). The Bachmann chassis runs quite nicely - not great, even by Bachmann's standards, but well - and I sort of want to see what a brass replacement is like compared to the original!

Not sure what Flexichas is...? I will google it!

Amanda

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1 minute ago, WM183 said:

 I plan to make my own spacers from some EMGS spacer stock brass, as the chassis kit I have has OO spacers (I got it from ebay in a lot of bits awhile ago, it's an older kit). 

 

Speak to Wizard Models, they took over the Comet Models product line and the following should help you :)

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/ls10/

 

 

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37 minutes ago, WM183 said:


Not sure what Flexichas is...? I will google it!

The principle (for an 0-6-0) is that the driven axle is fixed but the other two are in sliding hornblocks.  An equalising bar and pivot tube controls movement of the free axles.

Some recommended reading...

20201201_143747.jpg.9a637e5f3a71f50b16f93dce3a91d82d.jpg

 

Hope that helps.

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Rice's book is an entertaining read and informative.  I followed his advice slavishly when I built my first Perserverance chassis for the Bachmann Pannier and it worked first time.  I was quite chuffed.  I did use compensation since I didn't trust myself to get the chassis perfectly square.  The other thing is that I have never met a layout with pefectly laid track.

 

His advice also taught me to solder.

 

John

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4 hours ago, WM183 said:

Is a Mashima 1020 - linked to a decent gearbox from High Level - sufficient for a 4mm scale Jinty in a Comet chassis?

I'd say yes.

 

I've got a 1020, plus a HL gearbox, in my whitemetal 16XX pannier, which is quite a heavy loco and the motor seems to cope well. It is, however, only ever going to be pottering up and down over short distances.

 

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1 hour ago, Mark Forrest said:

The principle (for an 0-6-0) is that the driven axle is fixed but the other two are in sliding hornblocks.  An equalising bar and pivot tube controls movement of the free axles.

...

I prefer my method which is ideally suited to a Comet chassis, fix the rearmost axle, have the middle one independently suspended using coil springs and the leading one with a beam. Much easier than Flexichas

IMG_20191217_181237.jpg

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I have just gotten a copy of both the Rice chassis book and the white metal loco book, and am reading them in bed nights before sleep!

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7 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I prefer my method which is ideally suited to a Comet chassis, fix the rearmost axle, have the middle one independently suspended using coil springs and the leading one with a beam. Much easier than Flexichas

IMG_20191217_181237.jpg

The beam you speak of is a pivot which rides against the axle?

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1 minute ago, WM183 said:

The beam you speak of is a pivot which rides against the axle?

 

Rice's explanation in THE book is very good.  It must be because I got it.  :jester:

 

Here's a chassis for the Deeley Flatiron that I started:

 

P1010002-001.JPG.12e682cd6b630953363a75314950eebe.JPG

 

You can see the pivot tube and compensation beam bearing on two axles.

 

John

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54 minutes ago, WM183 said:

The beam you speak of is a pivot which rides against the axle?

Not quite, I made a flanged collar from 1/8" i/d brass tube and two M4 washers . The beam rides in between the washers.  I think this indirect method is better than having a beam riding directly on the axle because it is possible to lubricate it. One of the weaknesses of the flexichas system is the lubrication issue.

I'll try to post a photo later, it's not on the phone anymore.

Edited by PenrithBeacon
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Here's a picture of my usual arrangement, but the decoders (Lenz) and capacitor have been dispensed with/replaced. Steeply inclined 10mm Mashima. My locos are built for high mileages, and were not expected to fail under arduous exhibition conditions.

Workshop (436).JPG

Workshop (439).JPG

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18 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I prefer my method which is ideally suited to a Comet chassis, fix the rearmost axle, have the middle one independently suspended using coil springs and the leading one with a beam. Much easier than Flexichas

IMG_20191217_181237.jpg

 

18 hours ago, WM183 said:

The beam you speak of is a pivot which rides against the axle?

 

17 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Not quite, I made a flanged collar from 1/8" i/d brass tube and two M4 washers . The beam rides in between the washers.  I think this indirect method is better than having a beam riding directly on the axle because it is possible to lubricate it. One of the weaknesses of the flexichas system is the lubrication issue.

I'll try to post a photo later, it's not on the phone anymore.

This is the photo I promised.

 

1A.JPG

I find the Comet chassis jigs are invaluable when putting together a Comet chassis and you can substitute the 00 frame spacers that are standard with the kit with EM at no extra price when you order from Wizard.

Hope that helps

Edited by PenrithBeacon
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20 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I prefer my method which is ideally suited to a Comet chassis, fix the rearmost axle, have the middle one independently suspended using coil springs and the leading one with a beam. Much easier than Flexichas

IMG_20191217_181237.jpg

 

I bought a kit built loco with a sprung centre axle, very impressed with it, David's example takes it a bit further 

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Something worth mentioning here, if you are not familiar with chassis with individually moving axles like flexichas or sprung, you need to have two piece coupling rods (for 0-6-0).  Alan Gibson has a whole range of etched coupling rods.

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