Gunpowder Vans - 00 Gauge - Back with a bang!

[Kevin Johnson]

Hi I have just ordered one of these gunpowder vans from Hattons. I have chose  Gunpowder van in LMS grey - 701016 livery version. Look forward to it arriving Friday.

Happy days 😃

Edited April 6, 2022 by Kevin Johnson

[Jon Harbour]

Should get to try my two GWR ones out on Friday at my local club layout. Woo-hoo!

[Kevin Johnson]

The postman delivered my Rapido Trains gunpowder van RCH pattern in LMS Grey 701016.

This wagon is beautifully detailed and I don't mind paying that little extra for this detail which is evident in this wagon. Well done Rapido.

[Bishdurham]

On 18/03/2022 at 19:29, Porcy Mane said:

 

Probably a lot quicker than getting the body off the chassis with its twenty attachment points. Yep twenty... 20!

 

4 x setscrews.  (Body to W Iron casting).

 

2 self tappers  (Couplings).

 

Six alignment tabs.  (1 on each corner and two transverse).

 

4 Spigots  (Brake safety hoops).

 

4 x self locking tabs  (Plastic outer chassis).

 

Bit like the twin chassis Lotus 88  (or the Hornby coke hopper).

 

 

I've noticed a few insignificant and minor errors but I'll let the influencers of the model railway community comment on them.

 

P

Mornin' Porcy,  How did you get the draw hooks off?  Do they just pull off with the help of pliers?

 

Ta Muchly

 

Richard

[Dunsignalling]

In reply to Bishdurham, yes the hooks do just pull out. I've replaced them with whitemetal ones from MJT (my standard routine  with all wagons, r-t-r or kit-built)

 

I've just taken my Gunpowder van into surgery, I use Kadee couplers but really don't like those bulky NEM mounts/pockets and rather than take the easy plug-in route, I decided to replace them altogether. Preferably without fully dismantling the model.

 

On the SECR opens, the body mounting screws are where you want the ones for the Kadee #146s to go so the conversion is fairly quick and easy.

 

Not so with the GPV. The screw is positioned too close to the end and, if used my preferred #146, it would stick out too far, whilst the shorter #148 (Whisker equivalent of the #5) is too short.

 

My solution was to mill out the area behind the buffer beam using a reverse-taper burr in my minidrill, and build up a flat platform on which to mount the Kadee. Aside from removing the NEM gubbins, the only dismantling needed was to pull the roof off (it unplugs at each corner) and take out the weight (it goes back in after the job's done.  

 

Photos attached of one end done, before and after in the same shot! I'm also replacing the wheels because all the pics I can find of the early BR vans show spoked ones. New home already found for the Rapido 3-holes!

 

John

Edited April 21, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Phil Parker]

On 01/04/2022 at 17:30, Wickham Green too said:

I think this conversation might be heading for a Thread Drift of the Year Award ! 😊

 

I've carried out a quick thread clean up before this spirals out of control. Back to trains please folks. Thanks.  

[Michael Hodgson]

On 21/04/2022 at 09:48, Dunsignalling said:

 

 

You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!

[BenL]

I’ve just got back from a period away to find my recently delivered Rapido GWR gunpowder van waiting for me. My joy was somewhat tempered when I found it appeared to be missing one of its brake rods/shoes (as shown in the attached pic), at least compared to photos of the same wagon on retailers’ websites.
 

Upon checking my GWR wagon bible to see what that showed, I was surprised (though shouldn’t have been given it’s the standard arrangement of unfitted Morton brake gear) to find that there should be no brakes on one side! 
 

Am I misinterpreting the prototype photo or does the Rapido Z4 need its brakes removing on one side?

 

If it does, unfortunately my missing shoe is on the Morton cam side, the side that definitely needs brakes! 

[Porcy Mane]

On 10/05/2022 at 19:20, BenL said:

Z4 need its brakes removing on one side?

 

Yep.

If you're modelling the van in the livery correct for period, one side of the brake gear should not be there. Looks like rapido used Z4 as updated by BR then preserved as an example. 

 

105781 in original condition as here.

 

https://flic.kr/p/kmgBpk

 

What I can't understand is why Rapido felt the need to include two right angle bends in the brake lever. I can't think of any modelling or production compromise that would make this necessary. Also I'm thinking it would have been an improvement if the brake lever guides had been prototypical split as opposed to solid. I mean even OxfordRail are achieving this on wagons that are available at a fraction of the cost. I'll be replacing mine with etched.

 

This pic shows the "cranked" brake lever. 

 

 

P

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Porcy Mane
Being an idiot.

[Dunsignalling]

Same goes for the BR grey one.

 

AIUI, the second set of brake shoes was only added if the vehicle received vacuum brakes. 

 

There's a nice photo in Don Rowland's "Twilight of the Goods" (P63) of B887035 in October 1959, with 2-shoe Morton unfitted brake gear and spoked wheels as built. I've tweaked mine to match.

 

I doubt the 3-hole wheels are correct for the GWR van either, but they are quite nice and easily reassigned to new duties.

 

John

[BenL]

40 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Same goes for the BR grey one.

 

AIUI, the second set of brake shoes was only added if the vehicle received vacuum brakes. 

 

There's a nice photo in Don Rowland's "Twilight of the Goods" (P63) of B887035 in October 1959, with 2-shoe Morton unfitted brake gear and spoked wheels as built. I've tweaked mine to match.

 

I doubt the 3-hole wheels are correct for the GWR van either, but they are quite nice and easily reassigned to new duties.

 

John

Thanks for the further details about the brakes John.

 

I've just double-checked the photo of 105780 (which looks like an as built photo) in the GWR wagon bible (Atkins, Beard and Tourret) and it does have 3-hole wheels.

 

Cheers,

 

Ben

[Porcy Mane]

51 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Same goes for the BR grey one.

AIUI, the second set of brake shoes was only added if the vehicle received vacuum

 

Not quite correct.

 

From new, LMS built batches (some for the LNER) which had double sided brakes with twin V hangers to each solebar. Some of these were converted to piped only in BR days retaining their original brake gear, some went through the vac brake fitting program having Morton Vac brake gear fitted with one of each pair of V angers then removed from each solebar and some remained in original unfitted condition until withdrawn.

 

Gunpowder vans, an absolute minefield!  🙂

 

Oh! and thanks to Rapido for giving us the free solebar rivets for the vac. cylinder bracket. Nice that you fitted them to both sides on all versions.

 

P

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Not quite correct.

 

From new, LMS built batches (some for the LNER) which had double sided brakes with twin V hangers to each solebar. Some of these were converted to piped only in BR days retaining their original brake gear, some went through the vac brake fitting program having Morton Vac brake gear fitted with one of each pair of V angers then removed from each solebar and some remained in original unfitted condition until withdrawn.

 

Gunpowder vans, an absolute minefield!  🙂

 

Oh! and thanks to Rapido for giving us the free solebar rivets for the vac. cylinder bracket. Nice that you fitted them to both sides on all versions.

 

P

 

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware there were variants with independent "either side" brakes (what we Southern types call the "Freighter" brake).

 

That said, 4-shoe unfitted Morton brake was a very rare animal on any kind of wagon, and I'd think all the more-so on anything with a 9' wheelbase.  

 

John

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

Oh! and thanks to Rapido for giving us the free solebar rivets for the vac. cylinder bracket. Nice that you fitted them to both sides on all versions.

 

Lol. 

 

Scrape them off and save them for re-use on other models...

[Porcy Mane]

20 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Scrape them off and save them for re-use on other models...

 

 Waaaaaayyyyyyy ahead of ya.         😉

 

 

P

[Jammy2305]

GER Dia.62 was built to an RCH design between 1909 and 1914. The GERS has a good article on these in Journal 82 and Tatlow's LNER wagons V.1 shows a drawing for this wagon (included).

 

 

My question is this: How much did the 1909 RCH design differ from the later RCH design modelled by Rapido?

 

From what I can see, the two look very similar and it makes me question whether a repaint is possible...

 

Many thanks

 

James

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, jamesC37LG said:

GER Dia.62 was built to an RCH design between 1909 and 1914.

 

An RCH design or a design meeting an RCH specification? One of the RCH Conferences (Goods Managers?) will have agreed on a common specification but it's clear that design choices were left to the railway companies. while quite a number adopted iron mink clones, others did not.

[Mark Saunders]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

An RCH design or a design meeting an RCH specification? One of the RCH Conferences (Goods Managers?) will have agreed on a common specification but it's clear that design choices were left to the railway companies. while quite a number adopted iron mink clones, others did not.

The railways have gone full circle as they now go back to what is available from the builders . 
 

Look at the builder rather than the owner/operator as the same applied prre war with coal wagons and was repeated under privatisation!

[Jammy2305]

~ Deleted as information no longer required ~

Edited March 29, 2023 by Jammy2305