WM Fleetline and Guy Arab Buses - 00 Gauge

[rapidoandy]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Trouble is they are Birmingham prototypes , so fairly specific to that region , although I know the Fleetline may have other users . I would like to see other more widespread buses. For instance an Alexander bodied "D" type Fleetline that was used by the Scottish Bas Group . I've seen Western, Midland , Fife and Eastern examples. Not sure if there were Northern or Highland ones .However , in addition Alexander bodied buses could be found in NBC companies , so lots of colour schemes . I have a feeling that Midland Red may have had them , if that gets it closer to Brum and more likely !!!!!

One of the problems I am finding with a ‘widespread’ bus is that there were umpteen variations and each operator did their own thing slightly differently. I can see the £££ disappearing in the tooling. If we only produced one variant etc we get told it’s not right for me and my operator. It’s a hard balance.

[Legend]

15 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

One of the problems I am finding with a ‘widespread’ bus is that there were umpteen variations and each operator did their own thing slightly differently. I can see the £££ disappearing in the tooling. If we only produced one variant etc we get told it’s not right for me and my operator. It’s a hard balance.

yes I see where you are coming from , but most of the SBG Fleetlines were the same, but lots of colour schemes . I think a simple change of destination screeens would be all that’s required for some English versions . 

Edited April 22, 2022 by Legend

[Covkid]

10 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I'll just restate what I've said before, that the bus and railway modelling fraternity are overdue a decent Leyland National, literally the go anywhere Swiss army knife bus which has been running for 50 years this year and in more colours than you could dream of.  Whilst there were multiple versions of the bus, they were fairly standardised, the 11.3m single door version probably having the edge as the most common style across the country.

And yes, there were hundreds of the things all over Birmingham.

 

9 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

One of the problems I am finding with a ‘widespread’ bus is that there were umpteen variations and each operator did their own thing slightly differently. I can see the £££ disappearing in the tooling. If we only produced one variant etc we get told it’s not right for me and my operator. It’s a hard balance.

To a degree Andy I agree, but Mark (Wombato) is right about the National.  in it's 11.3m version you could probably fit the short pod or the long pod on the roof, and with the as built engine grilles at the rear it would cover a huge swathe of offerings. The shorty podless and Mk2 would obviously be a separate development. 

5 hours ago, Legend said:

yes I see where you are coming from , but most of the SBG Fleetlines were the same, but lots of colour schemes . I think a simple change of destination screeens would be all that’s required for dome English versions . 

 

I think the relatively easy destination display changes would be a big selling point - not tried changing mine yet.  I would have no problem renumbering buses assuming I can get transfers, but I think many potential modellers would perhaps buy more if it were easy to change displays.   

[wombatofludham]

20 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

I'll just restate what I've said before, that the bus and railway modelling fraternity are overdue a decent Leyland National, literally the go anywhere Swiss army knife bus which has been running for 50 years this year and in more colours than you could dream of.  Whilst there were multiple versions of the bus, they were fairly standardised, the 11.3m single door version probably having the edge as the most common style across the country.

And yes, there were hundreds of the things all over Birmingham.

 

In other news, I'm now off to put all my savings on tonight's Euromillions seeing as I nailed this announcement a day before it officially breaking cover...

Mystic Wombat Predicts

[AY Mod]

33 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

In other news, I'm now off to put all my savings on tonight's Euromillions seeing as I nailed this announcement a day before it officially breaking cover...

 

I played the long game, the day Jason told me about the Arab I quickly ejected "You know what I'd do?..." An easy door to lean on with an honorary Brummie but he did insist on doing a Fleetline first. Fair do's.

[wombatofludham]

It was an obvious shoo-in to be fair and probably the nearest thing the UK has to his beloved GM Fishbowl bus in the US/Canada.  And the Fleetline is beyond comparison for me having spent most of my student years riding them.

I just hope his interest in things Birmingham extends to a four car EMU with nice curved windscreens.

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, wombatofludham said:

I just hope his interest in things Birmingham extends to a four car EMU with nice curved windscreens.

 

Me too but he spent most of his time on the wrong (SW) side of town!

[64F]

Another batch of Fleetlines announced today, including some secondhand operators:

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/fleetline/

[rhnrhn]

Its interesting to note that Rapido are Including the rebuilt 1965 Fleetline BON531C in this release.

 

This bus had an interesting feature in that its 1965 Chassis was 8' wide but its 1970s MCW Body was 8' 2 1/2" In wide, resulting in a noticable step between the wider body and the narrower engine bustle.

 

Its 1965 tail lights were also different to those on a 70s vehicle.

 

In 4mm scale the step is about 0.4mm on each side.

The question is have Rapido planned for this in their tooling with interchangable engine bustles?

 

If they have, is there a possibility of seeing WMPTE Bristol VRTs with MCW bodies in a future release?

 

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by rhnrhn

[Covkid]

44 minutes ago, rhnrhn said:

Its interesting to note that Rapido are Including the rebuilt 1965 Fleetline BON531C in this release.

 

This bus had an interesting feature in that its 1965 Chassis was 8' wide but its 1970s MCW Body was 8' 2 1/2" In wide, resulting in a noticable step between the wider body and the narrower engine bustle.

 

Its 1965 tail lights were also different to those on a 70s vehicle.

 

In 4mm scale the step is about 0.4mm on each side.

The question is have Rapido planned for this in their tooling with interchangable engine bustles?

 

If they have, is there a possibity of seeing WMPTE Bristol VRTs with MCW bodies in a future release?

 

 

 

Yes.  Having seen the models quoted I was suprised to see 5531 quoted, then remembered its convoluted history. I get the impression that it won't be a separate tooling although I would gladly be proved wrong if a series of VRs were to appear in the fullness of time.  I am pleased Rapido are confident that the "second hand" Fleetlines are considered worthwhile.  As a modeller from the PTE era I will definitely be having 6907 from the WMPTE era on the 51 - an oft travelled route 40 years ago. 

[64F]

There is also to be a different Andrews of Sheffield vehicle as an exclusive for Rails: https://railsofsheffield.com/blogs/news/new-rapido-fleetline-buses

[ian]

I'd certainly be up for a few VRs to go with my Fleetlnes.

[rhnrhn]

On 29/10/2022 at 10:26, Covkid said:

 

 I get the impression that it won't be a separate tooling although I would gladly be proved wrong if a series of VRs were to appear in the fullness of time.  

Checking the exploded parts diagram:

 

https://rapidotrainscouk-my.sharepoint.com/:b:/g/personal/operations_rapidotrains_co_uk/Ebv_Bm5v--BKsfKM9MN-ar8BLeVLZgNgDcs9bXv3MV9FoA?e=qPCDX0

 

The tooling for it might well not be separate, but the part for the engine bustle (number 68) certainly is.

 

Of course that wouldn't help for the Bristol as the front panel (which appears to be integrated in the main body moulding - number 5) would also need to be modified.

Edited October 30, 2022 by rhnrhn
details

[rogerzilla]

I lived in Birmingham from 1987-1993 and was reliably informed, by the partner of someone who worked there, that WMPTE was always pronounced "Wumpity" by its employees.  Must have been a sad day when they rebranded as Centro.

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, rogerzilla said:

I lived in Birmingham from 1987-1993 and was reliably informed, by the partner of someone who worked there, that WMPTE was always pronounced "Wumpity" by its employees.  Must have been a sad day when they rebranded as Centro.

 

 

[wombatofludham]

To be strictly accurate, Wumpty was the old PTE pre deregulation.  After the split between the PTE (planning, infrastructure, subsidised services and rail, with a joint board overseen by councillors) and the bus operations (which became a limited company whose shares were owned by the PTE until sold to the workforce and became known as West Midlands Travel) it was felt there was too much confusion between WMT (the bus company, which ran as a commercial profit making concern) and WMPTE ( which didn't run the buses) so the PTE was renamed "Centro".  I joined Centro the year after the rebrand and still have a highly rare and valuable corporate design manual in my stash.

The funny thing is that the Government of the day didn't believe the PTEs would last more than a few years before the market driven bus services became so marvellous they became redundant, with all the other functions (rail, new infrastructure, new projects like the Metro) being passed over to the councils or the Department for Transport.  Didn't work out like that.

[wombatofludham]

On 30/10/2022 at 19:34, rhnrhn said:

Checking the exploded parts diagram:

 

https://rapidotrainscouk-my.sharepoint.com/:b:/g/personal/operations_rapidotrains_co_uk/Ebv_Bm5v--BKsfKM9MN-ar8BLeVLZgNgDcs9bXv3MV9FoA?e=qPCDX0

 

The tooling for it might well not be separate, but the part for the engine bustle (number 68) certainly is.

 

Of course that wouldn't help for the Bristol as the front panel (which appears to be integrated in the main body moulding - number 5) would also need to be modified.

One thing that might be an incentive to do the VR is the fact that thanks to them being less than stellar in the reliability stakes (I speak from experience as Walsall depot was a hotbed of VR operation and they regularly would lie down on the job when I was a regular bus user in the 1980s) they were sold off fairly quickly and appeared in a number of operator's liveries.  Wilts and Dorset were prolific users of ex WMPTE VRs and did them up in their attractive red, white and black livery.  They also infamously killed off Crosville in Merseyside when a batch were sent there, and because they had no power steering (not even after fit "Autosteer", better known to drivers as "Autowander") the Union blacked them.  Crosville just shut up shop.

Their use by other operators around the country after sale by the PTE might make it worth the tooling mods.