Prince of Wales again on the B12 and then on a prototypical chassis

[PatriotClass]

Hello Guys,

 

I hope everybody is doing fine and healthy.

I used this Covid19 time to start month ago a plan to build my first loco. It was not the Prince of Wales but the Claughton. Somehow I fell in love with this engine. See my thread at the 3D section.

The Prince of Wales is more or less a product on the way, because it saved me from the problem of modelling a valve gear. 

I think, the major problem in scratchbuilding is not the loco body, it's the chassis and then the motor and the gear. I wanted to build an engine to run on the layout and not for the display shelf and nothing is more annoying than a bad performing model. So I took for my first Prince the easy way to put the 3D printed shell on a B12, like others did before. The old China chassis performs fairly well.

Next stage was to develop a chassis of my own that is prototypical and use Markits driving wheels and axles. Here I spent hours and learned a lot about how to make a connecting rod work smoothly.

The motor is the next choice to be taken wisely. I didn't wanted to spend  60 GBP on a Faulhaber or Maxxon, so I harvested the China merket on Ebay.  5pole motors with double shaft are rare, so I took several compromises that went wrong. Small 3pole are mostly to weak and tend to stall, brushless ones miss torque at low rpm and a geared motor is much to loud.

Gears are special aswell. Brass is louder than PVC and Module 0.3 is too small. 0.4 gears are ideal and in 0.5 you have the best choice on the market. 

 

Here I can show you the three prototypes: The B12 Version, the custom chassis and the Tishy on custom chassis

If anybody might have interest to convert a B12 to a Prince of Wales, I put the kit on Ebay.

 

I have the LMS converted firebox-Tishy in preparation and on request I can modify both Tishys to fit the B12 chassis.

 

Have a nice evening

Chris

Edited December 2, 2020 by PatriotClass

[ClaughtonSteve]

Have just received 2 of these from Chris, they look very good.  Will be looking at one to see the potential for conversion to a 19" Goods. When I get time will provide comparison to my GEM ones (I know the LRM ones are excellent, but you've not seen my soldering!!!)

 

[Compound2632]

Good to see a Tishy - rarely modelled. Anyone for a Hughes 4-6-0?

[PatriotClass]

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(I know the LRM ones are excellent, but you've not seen my soldering!!!)

I agree. Brass is and will stay the master class of 4mm modelling and it really requires high soldering skills, higher than mine too ;-)

The LRM models especially their L&NWR range are great. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

"Soldering is difficult" is a myth.

 

Soldering isn't difficult provided you use an appropriate solder, flux and soldering iron. This LNWR 4' 6" Tank was soldered using LRM 145 degree solder, LRM 12% Phosflux and a 50 watt temperature controlled soldering iron. 

 

The 145 solder has good flow characteristics (unlike solder intended for electrical work) the flux is liquid and flows into the joint to provide chemical cleanliness, while a 50W iron has enough power to ensure that the temperature is sustained to melt the solder properly. Clean metal is also important, easily achieved with a small glass fibre brush.

 

 

Roger Sawyer (of the EMGS and formerly proprietor of Eileen's Emporium) demonstrated soldering at exhibitions - we used to have any - and would get pre-teen children soldering bits of brass within minutes.

 

Some fairly solid lumps of metal such as chimneys, domes, etc. are easily fitted using a good epoxy resin as they have large contact surface areas. Nickel silver is also easier to solder (lower heat conductivity), one reason that a number of LRM kits are etched in N/S, where practical.

[Matti8]

I love your work with this. It's fantastic that such skilled people continue offer affordable 3D prints as they are a real blessing. Life is too short to scratchbuild every loco I want! But in my opinion you should really tone down those boiler bands as they look a bit Triang like.

 

Matti

[PatriotClass]

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 But in my opinion you should really tone down those boiler bands as they look a bit Triang like.

 

Thanks! I will decrease the radius of them, so they should not stand out that much. 

 

[Shez]

 

The locos look great Chris,

 

Can I add my support for Jol Wilkinson s' post. For years I thought soldering metal was some sort of black magic - then I was shown how to do it and realized that its no more difficult than using glue.  Plus it has the fantastic added bonus of being able to take stuff apart if you make a mess of it!  (If your read my posts you will realize that deconstruction is almost a daily occurrence! ) That's why I have found I prefer working with metal to other meduims.

 

I do have a temp controlled iron though - makes things so much easier. The best advice I was given was the "solder loves small gaps" keep the work clamped tight - I use cloths pegs - and the joint will be good.

 

Excited by potential of 3D printing though - particularly for things like brake blocks where there is shorting issues and other difficult to form shapes.  Using a range of whatever media is appropriate can mean we can develop a "hybrid" approach which can really be to everyone's advantage.

[Jol Wilkinson]

3 hours ago, Shez said:

 

The locos look great Chris,

 

Can I add my support for Jol Wilkinson s' post. For years I thought soldering metal was some sort of black magic - then I was shown how to do it and realized that its no more difficult than using glue.  Plus it has the fantastic added bonus of being able to take stuff apart if you make a mess of it!  (If your read my posts you will realize that deconstruction is almost a daily occurrence! ) That's why I have found I prefer working with metal to other meduims.

 

I do have a temp controlled iron though - makes things so much easier. The best advice I was given was the "solder loves small gaps" keep the work clamped tight - I use cloths pegs - and the joint will be good.

 

Excited by potential of 3D printing though - particularly for things like brake blocks where there is shorting issues and other difficult to form shapes.  Using a range of whatever media is appropriate can mean we can develop a "hybrid" approach which can really be to everyone's advantage.

 

Shez, 

 

wise words about appropriate use of materials.

 

When etching first got underway (and still to some extent) for kits, people were inclined to etch items that are better produced as a turning, brass or white metal casting. It was usually done because it was easier and cheaper to put onto the etch artwork than make patterns for castings or commission turned parts. 

 

Small, delicate parts are often better as separate items in a more robust material. The truss rods on Ratio plastic bogies fail readily and have to be replaced with brass rod. Wagon brake levers are better when supplied as etched items rather than moulded or 3D printed plastic. Sometimes bare metal - e.g. brass splasher edges , copper chimney tops, etc. can't be well represented unless in metal.

 

On the subject of boiler bands, best left off entirely. They were only 1/8" thick, so are best represented by thin adhesive strip or transfers for lined locos.

[Matti8]

Jol is, as I have read, quite the fierce opponent of moulded boiler bands! 

 

However he is probably right. In theory they would be .001 in thickness to scale. But yes do as you see fit, I know of many people who prefer using electrical tape or Alan Gibson's offering.

 

Matti