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Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)


NFWEM57
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Wayne's not used 3D printing before in N gauge though, and he's said it's a blend of multiple resins he's using, so I'd not fancy the chances at being able to say with any real conviction. Again though, I wouldn't foresee it being an issue. Painting it may be a good idea, as that'll stop UV related degredation. Unpainted in a garden may be the biggest issue - a lot of 3D resins go brittle under continued UV exposure.

 

All of those other suppliers are using injection moulding, which is a known quantity. It's a perfectly valid concern, given people may well expect track to last decades.

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7 minutes ago, Godders said:

I would have thought the question of life expectancy, would be known to, "FinetraX", as they have been manufacturing for many years, in N gauge. In addition the supplier of the plastic for printing will probably, also have a predicted or actual life expectancy.
Do people always ask this question, as I don't remember anyone asking the life expectancy of; Peco, Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Accurascale or any other of the myriads of suppliers. 

Indeed, does anyone ask how long their house is going to stand or their car going to last.

 

When plastics first came on the market life expectancy had never been thought as an issue, some plastics last longer than others. Now we know more I think it is a good question 

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"Wayne's not used 3D printing before in N gauge though, and he's said it's a blend of multiple resins he's using, so I'd not fancy the chances at being able to say with any real conviction. Again though, I wouldn't foresee it being an issue. Painting it may be a good idea, as that'll stop UV related degredation. Unpainted in a garden may be the biggest issue - a lot of 3D resins go brittle under continued UV exposure."

 

Painting may well slow down UV related degradation but  if you don't know what the material is, how can you possibly apply the appropriate paint finish to it. Painting it may be the worst thing you can do.

 

"All of those other suppliers are using injection moulding, which is a known quantity. It's a perfectly valid concern, given people may well expect track to last decades."

 

They may well be using injection moulding but it is not a known quantity, it varies in quality very much. 

 

 

"When plastics first came on the market life expectancy had never been thought as an issue, some plastics last longer than others. Now we know more I think it is a good question "

 

It may well be a "good" question but given the above statements, how is he supposed to give a "good" answer.
 

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After this 4mm range of point kits is finally on the market, will it be possible for O-gauge Finescale point kits to be produced from the same designs by just adjusting the image sizes in a similar way to when we print out on our home printers?

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3 minutes ago, 4railsman said:

After this 4mm range of point kits is finally on the market, will it be possible for O-gauge Finescale point kits to be produced from the same designs by just adjusting the image sizes in a similar way to when we print out on our home printers?

It's completely possible, I might have my hands full with the 4mm stuff for a while, though ^_^

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1 hour ago, Godders said:

"Wayne's not used 3D printing before in N gauge though, and he's said it's a blend of multiple resins he's using, so I'd not fancy the chances at being able to say with any real conviction. Again though, I wouldn't foresee it being an issue. Painting it may be a good idea, as that'll stop UV related degredation. Unpainted in a garden may be the biggest issue - a lot of 3D resins go brittle under continued UV exposure."

 

Painting may well slow down UV related degradation but  if you don't know what the material is, how can you possibly apply the appropriate paint finish to it. Painting it may be the worst thing you can do.

 

"All of those other suppliers are using injection moulding, which is a known quantity. It's a perfectly valid concern, given people may well expect track to last decades."

 

They may well be using injection moulding but it is not a known quantity, it varies in quality very much. 

 

 

"When plastics first came on the market life expectancy had never been thought as an issue, some plastics last longer than others. Now we know more I think it is a good question "

 

It may well be a "good" question but given the above statements, how is he supposed to give a "good" answer.
 

I really wasn't looking to have an argument on it, point is that Peco have been making track for, what, 50+ years, so that's why people didn't say "how long will this last?" when they released their new bullhead track. New entrants like Accurascale are still using production techniques with a long established lineage, and to that end it's a known quantity. That's not to say you can't do injection moulding badly. I'm sure if Hornby decided they were going to start offering their new models as 3D prints people would rightly question it. To that end, that's very different becuase no one has long term experience of 3D printed resins hence valid concerns about it's longevity, and I'll eat my hat if any of the companies say "this will last 20 years with no degredataion". But again, I'm sure Wayne's done his homework, and his mitigated that as much as possible. I'd pull him up slightly on hobbyist resins being brittle though, as you can absolutely get resins for home printing with bags of flex.

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33 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I'd pull him up slightly on hobbyist resins being brittle though, as you can absolutely get resins for home printing with bags of flex.

I know, I've tried them all. The problem I found with them is that they have a different 'flex to brittleness' ratio, for want of a better description. You need to add so much so that it's not brittle, that it becomes too flexible to the point the rail can flop around in the chairs... Not good. Add less and its too brittle again. 

Edited by Wayne Kinney
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Hi njee20

 

This is not an argument, it is a discussion. I have no intention of upsetting anyone. 
I don't know Wayne only studied his products, past and present. 
My hope is that his products will work fine and by what he has produced so far, I think they will.
If I was still working in the petrochem industry, I would be asking many more rigorous questions.

However this is a hobby and this guy is trying to produce much needed products at very acceptable prices. I want him to continue and be successful and I don't think this is the time to question certain aspects of what he is doing.

 

All the best

 

Godders

 

PS I also live in (West) Sussex

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6 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

I know, I've tried them all. The problem I found with them is that they have a different 'flex to brittleness' ratio, for want of a better description. You need to add so much so that it's not brittle, that it becomes too flexible to the point the rail can flop around in the chairs... Not good. Add less and its too brittle again. 

Yes, very true, they tend to move into a state of plastic deformation, rather than the elastic you’d need.

 

I think it’s a great application of the technology, I wonder if you could extend it to enable actual curved bases or custom formations - as you’re presumably just templating the chairs. The base could just be extruded from a DXF file or something? The whole rapid prototyping of 3D printing has huge potential there! 

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3 hours ago, Godders said:

Do people always ask this question, as I don't remember anyone asking the life expectancy of; Peco, Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol, Accurascale or any other of the myriads of suppliers. 

Indeed, does anyone ask how long their house is going to stand or their car going to last.

 

The likes of Peco etc. have been on the market for an awful long time so have known characteristics.  However, even that can change; an example being Dapol going over to (IIRC) recycled plastics for the kit range such as the ex-Kitmaster Deltic kit - I understand (in fairness, only due to having read it on the web) that this often leads to some distortion of parts that need straightening by the buyer prior to use.

 

2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

DSC04439.JPG

 

 

I see a challenge approaching....who'll be the first to get a loco and carriages doing the loop?  Brings back memories of my old Matchbox Track back in the 70's.....

 

And finally, many thanks to Wayne for the explanation regarding resins etc. :)

 

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17 hours ago, polybear said:

an example being Dapol going over to (IIRC) recycled plastics for the kit range such as the ex-Kitmaster Deltic kit - I understand (in fairness, only due to having read it on the web) that this often leads to some distortion of parts that need straightening by the buyer prior to use.

 

Back in the day Lima used recycled plastic in some of their models, it being very brittle, seemingly randomly though, as some models were OK and some weren't.

I don't think Wayne is going to be having the Dapol issue of using moulds from a prehistoric era though!

 

Mike.

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It’s like most things in life as more and more people get into 3D printing the better the resins/plastics become. What was once an industrial grade becomes available to the individual. BASF now do a fillament so that you print in steel. It’s about €600 for a 1kg roll.

 

Keith

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2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Back in the day Lima used recycled plastic in some of their models, it being very brittle, seemingly randomly though, as some models were OK and some weren't.

I don't think Wayne is going to be having the Dapol issue of using moulds from a prehistoric era though!

 

Mike.

It could have been down to the amount of recycled plastic used as a proportion to virgin plastic, I understand there is a optimum beyond which the product becomes inferior. If the mix wasn't controlled then variations could possibly occur.

 

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I seldom venture into the realms of n gauge or 2mm scale when it comes to trackwork, though I have had occasion to assemble some of Waynes products only difference being that a fabricated common crossing was specified in preference to the cast version supplied, otherwise no problem.

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I have just seen this you could just download the free .stl's and modify them..........

 

 

Might have a go just for some fun. I will need a Lister though to run on it just to keep it local.

 

Keith

 

Ps on Loco Remote's website.

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33 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

I have just seen this you could just download the free .stl's and modify them..........

 

 

Might have a go just for some fun. I will need a Lister though to run on it just to keep it local.

 

Keith

 

Ps on Loco Remote's website.

Well, that puts me out of business..:biggrin_mini2:

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Hope everyone is enjoying the between Xmas and New Year 'Chrimbo Limbo' ....:D

 

If stuck for anything to do, please answer my 2 polls 'What Gauge will you be purchasing?' & 'What plain line flexi track will you be connecting to?'

(Please click to follow link)

What Gauge will you be purchasing?

What plain line flexi track will you be connecting to?

 

Thanks for your time, guys!

Edited by Wayne Kinney
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Voted but in a simple vote the first part is difficult to answer. Yes I put 00sf but equally I could use 00. However what you produce will be a great boon to the hobby. As a matter of interest do you have the capacity to handle the production of the expanded range. 
 

Also do you have any more photos to temp us all

 

and of course happy new year.

 

Keith

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11 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hope everyone is enjoying the between Xmas and New Year 'Chrimbo Limbo' ....:D

 

If stuck for anything to do, please answer my 2 polls 'What Gauge will you be purchasing?' & 'What plain line flexi track will you be connecting to?'

(Please click to follow link)

What Gauge will you be purchasing?

What plain line flexi track will you be connecting to?

 

Thanks for your time, guys!

 

I'm not quite sure yet what I will be using by way of plain track, but it will probably be a bit of a mix. Definitely some SMP in sidings as I have a couple of boxes to use up. And I should probably have some FB (Code 82) on the mainline. 

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