Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Wayne Kinney]

23 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

That looks great Wayne.

 

How about a close-up of the switch area? Does it now have a proper set in the stock rail? Have you reduced the switch front to 2 timbers? Have we seen a close-up of your stretcher bar (tie-bar) design?

 

Sorry about so many question marks!

 

Martin.

Thanks Martin,

 

I will do once I mill the switch blades over the next few days.

 

But yes to both questions (set and 2 timbers).

[NFWEM57]

5 hours ago, Tankerman said:

 

Wayne, 

 

Having seen this I think that you have probably done more than anyone else to make EM gauge a viable alternative to OO for those modellers who have limited track building skills and tried EM, but fell down at the hurdle of building points. 

I concur 100%. The effort and thought put into the design has been incredible.  Returning to model railways as I approach retirement and having chosen EM, I was not relishing the thought of having to make upwards of 50+ points chair by chair in addition to the ready made 50+ EMGS B6s required for my planned layout.  This innovation is decades overdue.  Well done to Wayne for spotting and filling a huge gap in the market.  I wish Wayne every success.

Edited January 8, 2021 by NFWEM57

[Jeff Smith]

1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

I concur 100%. The effort and thought put into the design has been incredible.  Returning to model railways as I approach retirement and having chosen EM, I was not relishing the thought of having to make upwards of 50+ points chair by chair in addition to the ready made 50+ EMGS B6s required for my planned layout.  This innovation is decades overdue.  Well done to Wayne for spotting and filling a huge gap in the market.  I wish Wayne every success.

Wow!  Have you thought how long a layout with 100 points will take to build!

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Wow!  Have you thought how long a layout with 100 points will take to build!

Could this be the next Retford in the making?  Please tell us more NFWEM57?

[Chris Horner]

Wayne, earlier in the thread you alluded to the possibility that they could be curved with some selective adjustment, as had happened with your N gauge points. Would this be easy enough to do? I’ve looked into buying other hand built points (my track plan needs 14 curved ones!) but am very tempted to wait for yours as they seem easier to construct and have a fantastic look.

[martin_wynne]

11 hours ago, Chris Horner said:

the possibility that they could be curved with some selective adjustment........... Would this be easy enough to do?

Hi Chris,

 

I can't speak for Wayne or these specific products, but generally to curve a turnout with a moulded base:

 

1. snip through and remove the tabs between the timbers under all rails except the straight closure rail.

 

2. that will make the base quite flimsy, so it will need to be stuck down to a template at the required curve.

 

3. in the case of similar-flexure, the curved switch blade/closure rail will need to be slightly longer than if assembled straight, so ideally it would be supplied a little over-length for trimming to fit, or exchangeable for a longer length.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited January 9, 2021 by martin_wynne
typo

[NFWEM57]

6 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

Wow!  Have you thought how long a layout with 100 points will take to build!

A lot less time with Wayne's products...!

[NFWEM57]

5 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Could this be the next Retford in the making?  Please tell us more NFWEM57?

Thank you for your interest..!  Nowhere near as elaborate and exquisite as layouts such as Retford or Little Bytham but the same idea. EM gauge, 1960's and location modelled, Somerset or North Devon, yet to be decided but current plan is either Taunton or Norton Fitzwarren with the latter the current favourite as it provides for main line and branch line operation.  Very much in the planning stage with many pieces of a far broader jigsaw required to fall into place before construction can begin.  In the meantime, I am collecting and converting the rolling stock required which will be tested and fine tuned on a small multi gauge (EM, OO and N) test track which is just nearing completion.  Some stock repaired or refurbished and sold on, hence the need for an OO part to the test track.  Just converting Bachmann split chassis GWR Mogul and BR 4MT to EM and DCC; both were bought spares or repair due to damaged or missing motion gear but otherwise in VGC.  Needed to recover long dormant skill of hand by practicing on something..!

[Chuffer Davies]

2 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

Thank you for your interest..!  Nowhere near as elaborate and exquisite as layouts such as Retford or Little Bytham but the same idea. EM gauge, 1960's and location modelled, Somerset or North Devon, yet to be decided but current plan is either Taunton or Norton Fitzwarren with the latter the current favourite as it provides for main line and branch line operation.  Very much in the planning stage with many pieces of a far broader jigsaw required to fall into place before construction can begin.  In the meantime, I am collecting and converting the rolling stock required which will be tested and fine tuned on a small multi gauge (EM, OO and N) test track which is just nearing completion.  Some stock repaired or refurbished and sold on, hence the need for an OO part to the test track.  Just converting Bachmann split chassis GWR Mogul and BR 4MT to EM and DCC; both were bought spares or repair due to damaged or missing motion gear but otherwise in VGC.  Needed to recover long dormant skill of hand by practicing on something..!

Sounds amazing...  Are you assembling a small team or will you be a one man band?

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Chris Horner said:

Wayne, earlier in the thread you alluded to the possibility that they could be curved with some selective adjustment, as had happened with your N gauge points. Would this be easy enough to do? I’ve looked into buying other hand built points (my track plan needs 14 curved ones!) but am very tempted to wait for yours as they seem easier to construct and have a fantastic look.

 

Chris

 

The other thing to take into consideration is the effect that curving a turnout has on the radius of the turnout, in 00 gauge this may not be too much of an issue with 00SF & EM gauges it may

 

If you go into Templot its so easy to make a turnout with a few clicks, then quite an easy step to curve it and the dialog box will inform you of the new radii

 

On the other hand a negative curve (making it more like a Y turnout) increases the radii

[KeithHC]

25 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Chris

 

The other thing to take into consideration is the effect that curving a turnout has on the radius of the turnout, in 00 gauge this may not be too much of an issue with 00SF & EM gauges it may

 

If you go into Templot its so easy to make a turnout with a few clicks, then quite an easy step to curve it and the dialog box will inform you of the new radii

 

On the other hand a negative curve (making it more like a Y turnout) increases the radii

John and Martin in the case of curving in 00. I am considering doing 00sf would you suggest for the single curved turnout that I potentially use an 00 kit.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

5 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

John and Martin in the case of curving in 00. I am considering doing 00sf would you suggest for the single curved turnout that I potentially use an 00 kit.

 

Keith

 

Keith

 

Martin is far more qualified than me to answer this question, I think you can go down to around 36" radii in 00SF before gauge widening is required.

 

The standard B7 has a replacement radii of 96" (on the turnout road), curving the straight line to 1m radii will give a replacement radii of 27.28".  A 1.5m radii will give a replacement radii of 36.5". Just something to be aware of. 

[martin_wynne]

16 hours ago, KeithHC said:

John and Martin in the case of curving in 00. I am considering doing 00sf would you suggest for the single curved turnout that I potentially use an 00 kit.

 

Hi Keith,

 

Generally for EM and 00-SF, for curves below about 3ft / 900mm radius you are likely to need some gauge-widening. A lot depends on the stock you are running -- the wheelbase and axle side-play, the wheel profile and wheel diameter, the rail-head profile, and the price of kippers. In some cases you may be able to go a bit sharper without widening, but 3ft is a good ball-park figure to keep in mind.

 

If you are hand-building track it is easy to gauge-widen, and you can then widen as much as necessary, down to typical set-track radii.

 

But for ready-made bases you don't have an option of gauge-widening, so your design choices are a bit more limited. In 00 if you need sharper curves than about 3ft radius, it might be better to use the Standard 00 turnouts for the sharply curved ones. At 16.5mm gauge they are in effect already gauge-widened. 00-SF and Standard 00 pointwork can be mixed on the same layout, so you could use 00-SF for the more gently curved turnouts in running lines.

 

Depending on the design of the prototype turnout there are different ways of specifying the radius, because it is not usually a constant curve all through. I don't know what designs Wayne has used so what follows is NOT about his new kits, these are just the default REA bullhead sizes from Templot with "regular" pattern V-crossings (frogs):

 

 

At the bottom is a B-7 in 00-SF. To keep the inner turnout radius in the centre section no sharper than 3ft radius, the outer road cannot be curved sharper than 11ft radius.

 

A B-7 in EM is quite a bit longer, which means it can be curved to about 8ft radius in the outer road, for a 3ft inner road.

 

I mentioned earlier that the key to making curved turnouts is to start with longer ones, and in 00-SF the shortest which can be given much curving is a B-8 (top turnout above). You can see that it is similar in length to a B-7 in EM, and can be curved down to about 6ft-6in in the outer road while keeping the inner road to 3ft radius. This of course makes it much more versatile in layout design work than the B-7.

 

To repeat, these above are the default REA turnouts from Templot. Only Wayne can say what his designs and intentions are for the FinetraX range. It would be good to see B-8 or C-10 turnouts added to the range at an early stage.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited January 10, 2021 by martin_wynne
typo

[NFWEM57]

 

On 09/01/2021 at 07:21, Chuffer Davies said:

Sounds amazing...  Are you assembling a small team or will you be a one man band?

I will of course endeavour to encourage senior management to take an interest in some aspects - scenery, buildings, et al, most other aspects will be mine to tackle.  Will be well documented, that has already started, with logic behind decisions, lesson learnt.  DCC layout so wiring less complex and with computer control.  Attached is an image of the section of interest to be modelled.  To the right there was US Army Depo which became a factory with rail access after the war.  The mainline goes to Exeter (left) and Taunton (right),  the branch lines go to Barnstable (far left) and Minehead (left).  Helix at both ends with fiddle yard underneath.  Father Time permitting I may model Minehead once the main layout is complete. 

 

 

 

Most pictures I have found of the station around 1950s to 1960s are copyright but can be viewed on line at (click on image to enlarge):

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-Fitzwarren-Railway-Station-Photo-Taunton-to-Wellington-Milverton-1/252215037274?hash=item3ab9300d5a:g:nNUAAOSwk1JWcT7l

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-Fitzwarren-Railway-Station-Photo-Taunton-to-Wellington-Milverton-4-/252957826535

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-Fitzwarren-Railway-Station-Photo-Taunton-to-Wellington-Milverton-15/264500454502?hash=item3d9574a466:g:tCIAAOSwHSxdpuTB

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-Fitzwarren-Railway-Station-Photo-Taunton-to-Wellington-Milverton-14/252957826528?hash=item3ae5761de0:g:wOgAAOSw0hlZJzBM

 

Patrick

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by NFWEM57

[GWR57xx]

I’ve just stumbled into this thread, simply to find out what has generated 19 pages of replies in just a month (I have no interest in OO/EM so the title didn’t entice me in!

This product looks absolutely superb, and I just wish something like this was available in O gauge, where Peco’s offering is even smaller than it’s OO offering (which is comprehensive by comparison).

I wish you every success with its release.

[martin_wynne]

I mentioned earlier that the B-7 turnouts in 00-SF couldn't be curved to much less than 11ft (132") outer radius, to keep the inner radius not less than 3ft (36") radius.

 

That's not necessarily as restrictive as it might sound, because it applies only as far as the front of the V-crossing (frog). Beyond that position the outer radius can sharpen. Using Templot you could easily print templates for a curved crossover such as this. Within the white marks the outer radius transitions down from 132" to 38", and the inner radius from 130" to 36":

 

 

With the result that nowhere is the radius sharper than 36". Note that unlike trying to do such a curved crossover in Peco, both these turnouts are the same hand (LH here), as they always are in a proper curved crossover.  The inner turnout has contraflexure (negative curving), meaning that the diverging radius now larger than in the original turnout.

 

Martin.

[NFWEM57]

Having just completed the OO gauge element of my multi gauge test track this morning, I tested the new Dapol Mogul, out of the box, on the test track which includes the prototype 00 Fine B7 from British Finescale.  The back to back was 14.5~14.55mm out of the box.

 

My first You Tube upload so apologies if it is not perfect. 

 

The very slight bump as it passes over the crossing V is my fault as I messed up during assembly and which I declared on page 2 of this article (4 Dec 20) . so nothing wrong with the product, just the tester...! 

 

The point is screwed in place place as it is a test track and I may wish to test other track items in the future. 

 

 

Patrick

 

[martin_wynne]

Can we clarify whether that turnout is Standard 00, DOGA-Fine, or 00-SF ?

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

6 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

Can we clarify whether that turnout is Standard 00, DOGA-Fine, or 00-SF ?

 

Martin.

Hi Martin,

 

It was the first prototype I made which was DOGA-Fine. I believe the check span was slightly under 14.5mm which is why the Mogul runs on it 'out of the box'.

 

It's been a few months since I sent this to Patrick, things have moved on. Just to confirm, I will not be producing DOGA-Fine, only Standard 00, 00-SF and EM Gauge.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Wayne Kinney

[NFWEM57]

A second video of the point in close up has been uploaded to YouTube

 

 

Patrick

Edited January 11, 2021 by NFWEM57

[martin_wynne]

For a first kit-bashing project with a couple of these kits, how about a Barry slip?

 

Thanks to Mick Nicholson for this pic.

 

You've got all the rail parts needed, it just needs a bit of creative cut-and-shut with the bases. You may need a few extra chairs from C&L, and I'm sure Wayne will be producing a pack of matching timbering strip.

 

Martin.

[Budgie]

2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

For a first kit-bashing project with a couple of these kits, how about a Barry slip?

 

[...]

 

You've got all the rail parts needed, it just needs a bit of creative cut-and-shut with the bases. You may need a few extra chairs from C&L, and I'm sure Wayne will be producing a pack of matching timbering strip.

 

Martin.

 

Of course this could be a kit prepared to order.

[martin_wynne]

6 minutes ago, Budgie said:

Of course this could be a kit prepared to order.

 

I suspect that in the short term Wayne is going to have his work cut out meeting the demand for the standard kits and developing the full range.

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

3 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

I suspect that in the short term Wayne is going to have his work cut out meeting the demand for the standard kits and developing the full range.

 

Martin.

[NFWEM57]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

My god, I thought Wayne was older..!