Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Wayne Kinney]

Thanks Joseph,

 

The reason I ask is due to the different height between some of the plain track available (thick or thin sleeper). 

 

I originally stated that I would be producing the turnout kits in both thick and thin sleeper/timber versions, but think I am creating too many variables and roughly 95% of feedback I've had (before the poll) state they will be using thick sleeper plain track.

 

So I believe I will be producing in thick sleeper only, which would align with Peco bullhead and new C&L Thick Sleeper.

 

Thin sleeper plain line (SMP or the older C&L thin) would need packing up by approx. 0.5mm.

 

 

EDIT: This post pushed into page 13, anyone who has missed it, please answer my polls on previous page (12). Thanks!

Edited December 28, 2020 by Wayne Kinney

[martin_wynne]

4 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

Voted but in a simple vote the first part is difficult to answer. Yes I put 00sf but equally I could use 00.

 

 

Hi Wayne,

 

Bear in mind that Standard 00 and 00-SF can be mixed on the same layout. (Same wheels, same 15.2mm check gauge for both.) So for example folks might use 00-SF for visible large-radius curves, and Standard 00 in the fiddle yard or for areas with sharp curves such as in old industrial sidings.

 

In the list of bullhead flexi-track you missed out:

 

 https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/pack-12-bullhead-track-24-rail-joiners/

 

Although I see it is currently marked out of stock.

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

Thanks Martin,

 

Very true but hope the poll will give a general feel for demand rather than being 100% accurate.

 

There is an option for 'Other' in the plain line poll.

[martin_wynne]

The DCC Concepts track uses shiny stainless steel rail -- just like the prototype:

 

 

 

Martin.

[Wayne Kinney]

3 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

The DCC Concepts track uses shiny stainless steel rail -- just like the prototype:

 

 

 

Martin.

Very Festive

[Wayne Kinney]

17 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

In the list of bullhead flexi-track you missed out:

 

 https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/pack-12-bullhead-track-24-rail-joiners/

 

Although I see it is currently marked out of stock.

 

Martin.

Hi Martin,

 

I've not handled the DCC concepts track before, do you know if they use thick or thin sleepers, and/or the overall height? Is it the same thickness/height and Peco bullhead and C&L Thick sleeper?

[gordon s]

Just an aside, I got distracted in the process and voted, but then tried again and it would appear there is nothing to stop the same person voting several times. It may well be my second vote cancelled out the first, but thought you ought to be aware results could be skewed if someone starts messing around.....

[KeithHC]

13 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Wayne,

 

Bear in mind that Standard 00 and 00-SF can be mixed on the same layout. (Same wheels, same 15.2mm check gauge for both.) So for example folks might use 00-SF for visible large-radius curves, and Standard 00 in the fiddle yard or for areas with sharp curves such as in old industrial sidings.

 

In the list of bullhead flexi-track you missed out:

 

 https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/pack-12-bullhead-track-24-rail-joiners/

 

Although I see it is currently marked out of stock.

 

Martin.

Thanks Martin much the same thoughts I was having. 
 

Wayne we have talked about a small converter section of sleepers to narrow flexible track to sf how about a converter section to go from thin to thick sleeper. As have been suggested before sold in a pack of ten.

 

Keith

[Wayne Kinney]

30 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

Thanks Martin much the same thoughts I was having. 
 

Wayne we have talked about a small converter section of sleepers to narrow flexible track to sf how about a converter section to go from thin to thick sleeper. As have been suggested before sold in a pack of ten.

 

Keith

Hi Keith,

 

I will have a look but I'm not sure I could get it to a reasonable price...

 

[Wayne Kinney]

2 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Thanks Martin much the same thoughts I was having. 
 

Wayne we have talked about a small converter section of sleepers to narrow flexible track to sf how about a converter section to go from thin to thick sleeper. As have been suggested before sold in a pack of ten.

 

Keith

Keith,

 

I have worked out prices, I could do a pack of 2x for £6.99. They would each be about 125mm long. I can do shorter but it's best to spread the transition over a longer length.

 

This is the same price for either a 16.5mm to 16.2mm gauge transition piece or a height transition piece.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Wayne Kinney

[Wayne Kinney]

Here is an example of a height transition piece in EM Gauge. It transitions by 0.6mm over 120mm.

 

 

So this would come in a pack of 2x for £6.99.

[hayfield]

26 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Here is an example of a height transition piece in EM Gauge. It transitions by 0.6mm over 120mm.

 

 

So this would come in a pack of 2x for £6.99.

 

Wayne

 

This is an excellent product that will have many uses, there are plenty of folk with SMP and old C&L track with thin bases about will make it much easier for them to use the new Peco and C&L products, plus yours of course. Then these may assist the EM modellers who still use Ply and rivet turnout and crossing method link it up with the societies new products

[down the sdjr]

4 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Martin,

 

I've not handled the DCC concepts track before, do you know if they use thick or thin sleepers, and/or the overall height? Is it the same thickness/height and Peco bullhead and C&L Thick sleeper?

The DCC concepts 00 gauge bullhead flexi is on thin base. The same as C&L thin base.

Edited December 28, 2020 by down the sdjr

[down the sdjr]

44 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Here is an example of a height transition piece in EM Gauge. It transitions by 0.6mm over 120mm.

 

 

So this would come in a pack of 2x for £6.99.

Hi Wayne, put me down for a few of these, cracking idea.

[KeithHC]

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Here is an example of a height transition piece in EM Gauge. It transitions by 0.6mm over 120mm.

 

 

So this would come in a pack of 2x for £6.99.

That looks great I am surprised the other manufacturers have not thought of it. This would seam to solve quite a few problems. For me as I do not have a layout yet I will go for thick sleepers.

 

Keith

[Enterprisingwestern]

What gauge. Easy. EM.

What will I be connecting to? All sorts. 2 different depths of ply sleeper, 3 different depths of plastic sleeper and perm any 1 from 5 RTR plain track, Scaleway, C&L, KM, EMGS/Peco and Ratio. I wasn't expecting you to even consider awkward sods like me, I would worry about transitioning not you, but that ramp piece looks like it could come in useful!

 

Mike.

[gordon s]

Just to add my tuppence, thin sleepers are often easier to ballast. The amount of ballast and shrinkage can mean that thin sleepers can allow you to sit pointwork into PVA and then sprinkle the ballast on directly. Experience has shown it avoids all problems re point blades etc being gummed up by traditional methods.

[Wayne Kinney]

59 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Just to add my tuppence, thin sleepers are often easier to ballast. The amount of ballast and shrinkage can mean that thin sleepers can allow you to sit pointwork into PVA and then sprinkle the ballast on directly. Experience has shown it avoids all problems re point blades etc being gummed up by traditional methods.

Hi Gordon,

 

I'm really interested in your comment. I would have thought thick sleepers would be easier to ballast, and contribute to the motivation for the likes of C&L to move to thicker sleepers.

 

I would love to hear peoples opinions on this subject.

[gordon s]

Very much a personal opinion as ballasting has always bugged me. Many years ago Capt Kernow introduced me to this ballasting method and I’ve used it ever since. Perfect for thin sleeper track and avoids all possibilities of ballast/PVA gumming up the works......

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by gordon s

[Ben Alder]

This is my approach to ballasting thin sleepered track.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, gordon s said:

Very much a personal opinion as ballasting has always bugged me. Many years ago Capt Kernow introduced me to this ballasting method and I’ve used it ever since. Perfect for thin sleeper track and avoids all possibilities of ballast/PVA gumming up the works......

 

 

Having tried both Gordon's and CK's "glue first" and the more common "ballast first" methods, I would say that thick sleepers work better with "ballast first" and thin sleepers work better with "glue first".

[Jeff Smith]

The glue-first technique relies on the glue not leaking under the rails so doesn't work with hand built track......  Also, if you use washable pva (School Glue in the US) it all goes soft again if using an acrylic wash to weather the ballast......

[gordon s]

3 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

The glue-first technique relies on the glue not leaking under the rails so doesn't work with hand built track......  Also, if you use washable pva (School Glue in the US) it all goes soft again if using an acrylic wash to weather the ballast......

Not sure I understand this, Jeff as all my pointwork is hand built. I brush on a good covering of PVA, sit the turnout in the wet PVA, sprinkle on the ballast and then hoover up the excess. Leave with a weight on top for an hour and job done. Never had a problem with gummed up blades at all. I use an airbrush to weather the ballast and again, never had the issues you describe.

 

Edit: Just thinking about my process, I should have said I cut away the 3mm cork bed where the tie bar sits. I then cut a piece of 2mm cork to size and put it in place temporarily. I drill a 1mm hole in the tie bar and then use the same drill to cut a slot in the 2mm cork, by inserting the drill through the tie bar and moving the tie bar back and forth. Remove the piece of 2mm cork and then apply PVA and ballast to the top surface. Once dry, slide that back under the tie bar and you should find the 1mm clearance between the two cork thicknesses allows the ballast under the tie bar without restricting the movement from side to side. The operating rod from the Tortoise motor can now move back and forth completely hidden from view.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by gordon s

[Jeff Smith]

I was referring to the process you illustrated in a link above where the track appears to be already stuck to the cork and you fill in the gaps between sleepers with pva.  I assumed you had diluted it perhaps more than you do and that it would seep under the rails.....but evidently not!

[Dominion]

Forgive the poor photo but I thought perhaps useful for illustrating the 16.2 to 16.5mm transition. The accidental finger obstruction is close to where some Peco bullhead is joined to the OO-SF formation. To me the transition is not really visible and not an issue. The slip and turnout formation is built to OO-SF throughout, except I sometimes leave the inner chair un-glued on the last 2 sleepers if I can get away with it. But If I have to glue the last chairs solid the flex track can still accommodate it, perhaps with one sleeper undercut or removed like we may have done for the old longer rail joiners.