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New range of simple to assemble 00/EM gauge pointwork kits


NFWEM57
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1 minute ago, Siberian Snooper said:

What are the complexities of turnout building? Can you use a file and soldering iron?

 

 

 

 

I didn't think we needed them for these kits - apart from electrics....

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3 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I think it was a good, if not harsh point, not very well put.

 

Mike.

I'd worked that out... ;)

My other response could have been.....Yes:

 

46917484591_6c748c35d7_z.jpg

Edited by Gilbert
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5 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

I didn't think we needed them for these kits - apart from electrics....

 

The Sheep Bloke mentioned that there are complexities in turnout building and I was just enquiring on what he thought were those were, as I don't think it's that hard if you can use the above mentioned tools. It does require the investment in a few roller gauges and some time.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Why would someone who models EM not be a society member? 

 

I think the answer is yes, some people for various reasons do not like being society members. I think since the society has been selling Exactoscale parts there is less of a valid reason as membership fees are soon recouped if track building

 

However most ( I am not pointing the finger at anybody specifically) societies do leave themselves open to criticism every now and then

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4 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

The Sheep Bloke mentioned that there are complexities in turnout building and I was just enquiring on what he thought were those were, as I don't think it's that hard if you can use the above mentioned tools. It does require the investment in a few roller gauges and some time.

 

 

I think the point (sorry) for me is that I woould not set about point building as described but these kits look as if they'll put decent looking points in the hands of many more modellers - including me. I care how track looks - almost as much as how it behaves - for example I used Marcway ready to lay points on my Pixash Lane layout.

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29 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

What are the complexities of turnout building? Can you use a file and soldering iron?

 

 

 

 

 

I think may buy a soldering iron and some multi cored solder, then fall at the first hurdle failing to solder two pieces of brass together or melting a length of track. Had they been taught the basics and bought the correct materials things would have been much better 

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1 hour ago, NHY 581 said:

 

Agree, Chris.  Whilst not wishing to add to Wayne's workload, the appearance of shorter turnout will really help us micro/cameo layout types. 

 

Rob. 

Strange. I would have expected yours to be massive and you would have amasses a mass of massive machines.

Mind you, small is becoming the new big.

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Obviously there's far more to making your own turnouts than simply filing and soldering. There are all sorts of technicalities that Wayne's kits will (should) deal with, removing the burden from the buyer.

 

For instance, I refer you back to the deeply technical discussions above about exactly what sort of chairs to use in what positions and how to angle them.

 

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3 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

What are the complexities of turnout building? Can you use a file and soldering iron?

 

 

 

 

With Wayne's turnouts, some simple soldering on of a frog wire and 2 shorting straps.  A file just to taper the end of the rail before threading through the chairs.  Apart form a bit of glue and a pair of plier to form the check rails, that is it.  in fact I am just starting a timed assembly of Wayne latest EM prototype B7 now.   See the other thread., I will be publishing there over the next 2 days; assembly, installation on my test track and running tests.  Almost forgot, pair of track cutters.!

 

Edited by NFWEM57
track cutters
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3 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

What are the complexities of turnout building? Can you use a file and soldering iron?

 

 

 

 

 

 

As others have said, its not simply about soldering A to B. Yes, I can use a file and a soldering iron. Its everything else that is encompassed with building a usable point that not only looks the part but crucially and more importantly, works.....and stays working. It has to be fit for purpose. 

Thanks to Wayne, all the tricky stuff  is done for you. 

It is this that will attract people to adopting EM gauge rather than the type of question posed by yourself. 

In turn the tone of your question arguably adds weight to my  opening question in my previous post. 

 

5 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

I do wonder if some sort of elitism will emerge amongst EM modellers. Will we see an element who will look down their nose at those who use Wayne's excellent system, rather than use the more traditional methods of constructing trackwork ?

 

 

Perhaps the cat is already approaching the pigeons. 

 

Rob. 

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3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I think the answer is yes, some people for various reasons do not like being society members. I think since the society has been selling Exactoscale parts there is less of a valid reason as membership fees are soon recouped if track building

 

However most ( I am not pointing the finger at anybody specifically) societies do leave themselves open to criticism every now and then

Let's face it John, nobody's perfect nor is any organisation.

 

Pete

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5 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

I do wonder if some sort of elitism will emerge amongst EM modellers. Will we see an element who will look down their nose at those who use Wayne's excellent system, rather than use the more traditional methods of constructing trackwork ?

I hope not and somhow doubt it. EM modellers tend to not be elitist and are far more pragmatic in their outlook. How's that for a generalisation! 

 

If anything, we (i.e. the EMGS Board, although I am speaking from a personal perspective) see a clear progression from using EMGS track (manufactured by Peco) at 'entry level', to Wayne's kitbuilt track, and then to scratchbuilding trackwork. I don't think that any one approach is meant to exclude others.

 

Pete

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40 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

As others have said, its not simply about soldering A to B. Yes, I can use a file and a soldering iron. Its everything else that is encompassed with building a usable point that not only looks the part but crucially and more importantly, works.....and stays working. It has to be fit for purpose. 

Thanks to Wayne, all the tricky stuff  is done for you. 

It is this that will attract people to adopting EM gauge rather than the type of question posed by yourself. 

In turn the tone of your question arguably adds weight to my  opening question in my previous post. 

 

 

Perhaps the cat is already approaching the pigeons. 

 

Rob. 

Hi, I answered it prior to you on the basis of it probably being a genuine question about the difficulty.

 

Patrick

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I think that the biggest hurdle to turnout building is the fear of having a go. My first few efforts were rubbish, but  I got better at and they were good enough for fiddle yards, they were all copper clad with the rail soldered directly to the timbers. I then progressed to building bespoke turnouts for a club exhibition layout.

 

I am now in the process of building a my first tandem, using C & L chairs, I just need to fit the check rails to finish it. It's also my first attempt in EM gauge.  I  will post a photo or two next time I am on my laptop. I hope that it will work. I also need to build a loco kit to test it and that is well outside my comfort zone, but I am willing it to push the boat out and give it a go.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

What are the complexities of turnout building? Can you use a file and soldering iron?

 

47 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

My first few efforts were rubbish, but  I got better at and they were good enough for fiddle yards...

Maybe not complex but certainly a learning curve and practise needed, evidently.

 

I think Pete (Leander) summed it up nicely:

 

1 hour ago, Leander said:

I see a clear progression from using EMGS track (manufactured by Peco) at 'entry level', to Wayne's kitbuilt track, and then to scratchbuilding trackwork. I don't think that any one approach is meant to exclude others.

 

Pete

 

Edited by Wayne Kinney
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8 minutes ago, Leander said:

I hope not and somhow doubt it. EM modellers tend to not be elitist and are far more pragmatic in their outlook. How's that for a generalisation! 

 

If anything, we (i.e. the EMGS Board, although I am speaking from a personal perspective) see a clear progression from using EMGS track (manufactured by Peco) at 'entry level', to Wayne's kitbuilt track, and then to scratchbuilding trackwork. I don't think that any one approach is meant to exclude others.

 

Pete

 

 

Pete

 

I think there is an inbuilt elitism in all parts of the hobby not just restricted to which gauge you model in. And perhaps a bit of some having an inferiority complex.  

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Just my just my tuppenceworth, and I haven’t built jack yet! I’ve been considering 00-SF for sometime but now I’m finding myself to be attracted to EM for the improved look from the wider gauge. However, there is a problem in committing to EM gauge and that is the time it will take to modify the RTR locos and stock that I have collected, to say nothing about the cost and complexity of the conversions. I’ve just looked up (searched) the conversion of Bachmann 4TC to EM Gauge ... seems rather extensive, not just pulling the wheels out, and also the cost of an Ultrascale wheel set for the Bachmann class 08 Diesel Shunter … Ouch! EM looks nice but so too does 00-SF which is what I think the majority of modellers will probably stick with, including myself ….. when I eventually pull my finger out!

 

Ian

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30 minutes ago, Ian_H said:

Just my just my tuppenceworth, and I haven’t built jack yet! I’ve been considering 00-SF for sometime but now I’m finding myself to be attracted to EM for the improved look from the wider gauge. However, there is a problem in committing to EM gauge and that is the time it will take to modify the RTR locos and stock that I have collected, to say nothing about the cost and complexity of the conversions. I’ve just looked up (searched) the conversion of Bachmann 4TC to EM Gauge ... seems rather extensive, not just pulling the wheels out, and also the cost of an Ultrascale wheel set for the Bachmann class 08 Diesel Shunter … Ouch! EM looks nice but so too does 00-SF which is what I think the majority of modellers will probably stick with, including myself ….. when I eventually pull my finger out!

 

Ian

Without wishing to name names, have you tried Alan Gibson wheels? Almost immediate delivery and cheaper but where you need a specific set then use Ultrascale.  On conversions, Diesels, coaches and wagons easy, steam without outside valve gear and pistons easy, with pistons  a bit harder, with valve gear, I 'm still tackling my first  and it is one set back after another.  If you go to the other thread on this topic, see above,  you should see a a video uploaded later today of 3 EM diesels, 2 much older ones with Ultrascale wheel that I have converted to DCC and an newer Heljan Hymek with Alan Gibson wheels.  Did all three over the last few days in between fighting with a BR 4MT conversion and building Wayne's latest prototype.  But agree, can be expensive but they look good.

 

Makes me think we could do with an EM standard wit a bit more tolerance so you could use modern RTR wheels just set wider. 

 

Patrick

Quote

 

 

Edited by NFWEM57
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5 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Without wishing to name names, have you tried Alan Gibson wheels? Almost immediate delivery and cheaper but where you need a specific set then use Ultrascale.  On conversions, Diesels, coaches and wagons easy, steam without outside valve gear and pistons easy, with pistons  a bit harder, with valve gear, I 'm still tackling my first  and it is one set back after another.  If you go to the other thread on this topic, see above,  you should see a a video uploaded later today of 3 EM diesels, 2 much older ones with Ultrascale wheel that I have converted to DCC and an newer Heljan Hymek with Alan Gibson wheels.  Did all three over the last few days in between fighting with a BR 4MT conversion and building Wayne's latest prototype.  But agree, can be expensive but they look good.

 

Makes me think we could do with an EM standard wit a bit more tolerance so you could use modern RTR wheels just set wider. 

 

Patrick

 

One wonders how much longer are the major manufacturers wait before offering EM wheel sets. We have Sutton works already doing so with there class 24. I asked Accurascale recently about the new Grange loco and they advised that because of the outside valve works they could not offer the option. But they may be offering EM wheels sets for there other locomotives. Could we persuade Bachmann as there wagons and coach wheel sets seam easy to adjust. Also considering that Helijan conversion of the 26/27/33 is just a simple drop in wheel change could they be convinced.

 

Keith

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1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

Makes me think we could do with an EM standard wit a bit more tolerance so you could use modern RTR wheels just set wider. 

I don't think that the EMGS is going to rewite the standards any time soon but there is absolutely nothing to stop an individual modeller from tweaking back-to-backs or slightly altering clearances through check rails, to allow R-T-R wheels to be pulled out and used to model in EM gauge. Plenty of people out there do just that. The Hornby Britannia wheel is by far the best representation of the type and can easily be used for EM, as Tim Easter has done here.

70052 1.jpg

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1 hour ago, NFWEM57 said:

Makes me think we could do with an EM standard wit a bit more tolerance so you could use modern RTR wheels just set wider. 

 

Hi Patrick,

 

You can do that now. Lots of folks do. For standard EM set modern RTR wheels to 16.4mm back-to-back. i.e. closer than the standard EM back-to-back. Minimum is 16.3mm.

 

You then end up with exactly the same tolerances as running modern RTR on 00-SF (i.e. at 14.4mm back to back). Even more folks are doing that.

 

The clue is in the word "modern" RTR wheels. You can't expect to run old Triang trains and suchlike on EM (or 00-SF).

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
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On 20/02/2021 at 07:28, NHY 581 said:

I do wonder if some sort of elitism will emerge amongst EM modellers. Will we see an element who will look down their nose at those who use Wayne's excellent system, rather than use the more traditional methods of constructing trackwork ?

 

No, it's the P4 lot who look down their noses at EM modellers. 

And they in turn look down their noses at OO modellers.

Or to quote Ronnie Corbett, "I know my place".

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