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New range of simple to assemble 00/EM gauge pointwork kits


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1 hour ago, RBAGE said:

Hello Wayne,

Will the 2mm finescale points be available direct from you or via the association?

Do you have an approximate time?

Regards,

Bob

They will be available from both, but members will get a little extra discount from the 2mmSA.

No timeframe just yet, sorry.

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On 30/07/2021 at 15:32, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Nick,

 

Yes if you add UK 00 to "modern RTR stock", i.e. not necessarily all H0 RTR. But the operative words there are "vast majority". It's not absolutely guaranteed and you might find the odd model which needs tweaking of wheel back-to-backs. They should be in the range 14.3mm - 14.4mm. Some very modern RTR wheels have thinner flanges more akin to kit wheels and can be 14.5mm back-to-back.

 

Older RTR models will need re-wheeling, just changing the back-to-back won't work, the wheel flanges are likely to be too thick.

 

More about wheels for 00-SF at: https://85a.uk/00-sf/setting_00_wheels.php

 

Note that 00-SF is intended for typical finescale layout radii, say 30" / 750mm minimum radius. It won't work at trainset and set-track radii.

 

For modellers who run only RTR models and need sharper curves, Wayne also produces Standard 00 pointwork kits to the DOGA-Intermediate standard.

 

All you need to know about 00-SF is at: https://85a.uk/00-sf/

 

Martin.

 

Explanation number 5,378.

 

I hope it's all cut n paste!!

 

Dave.

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1 hour ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Explanation number 5,378.

@dasatcopthorne

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes, I wish I had a pound for every time I've written that stuff on RMweb in the last 15 years. :)

 

But someone must have been reading it, otherwise we wouldn't now have 00-SF turnout kits in production. So there is progress!

 

I hope folks realise that it's all down to you? It was your email to me all those years ago, asking about the 00-SF pre-set in Templot, which alerted me to how much RTR wheels had improved since 00-SF ("EM minus 2") was invented in the 1970s. Many thanks Dave for that. 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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On 01/08/2021 at 16:14, martin_wynne said:

@dasatcopthorne

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes, I wish I had a pound for every time I've written that stuff on RMweb in the last 15 years. :)

 

But someone must have been reading it, otherwise we wouldn't now have 00-SF turnout kits in production. So there is progress!

 

I hope folks realise that it's all down to you? It was your email to me all those years ago, asking about the 00-SF pre-set in Templot, which alerted me to how much RTR wheels had improved since 00-SF ("EM minus 2") was invented in the 1970s. Many thanks Dave for that. 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Bloomin heck.

 

Take it easy? :D

 

I truly never realised that.

 

Dave.

 

 

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On 01/08/2021 at 16:14, martin_wynne said:

@dasatcopthorne

 

Hi Dave,

 

Yes, I wish I had a pound for every time I've written that stuff on RMweb in the last 15 years. :)

 

But someone must have been reading it, otherwise we wouldn't now have 00-SF turnout kits in production. So there is progress!

 

I hope folks realise that it's all down to you? It was your email to me all those years ago, asking about the 00-SF pre-set in Templot, which alerted me to how much RTR wheels had improved since 00-SF ("EM minus 2") was invented in the 1970s. Many thanks Dave for that. 

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Please write a comprehensive book.... It would be a best seller, honest, no joke.  We need all your knowledge captured.  Templot blogs are fine but a book would benefit a far wider audience.

 

Patrick

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21 hours ago, RBAGE said:

Any news or timing for the 00 gauge diamond?

Bob

Hi Bob,

 

I am making the rubber moulds for the K crossing castings this week, then sending waxes off to be cast. hoping to get the kit done by the end of this month...

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20 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Hi Bob,

 

I am making the rubber moulds for the K crossing castings this week, then sending waxes off to be cast. hoping to get the kit done by the end of this month...

Smashing. Thanks.

Better get the baseboards cleared.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm in the process of redesigning my railway which is based on an actual location. The railway is a four track main line leading to a junction.

Previous offerings of ready to lay points have dictated that the junction, which is on a curve, had to be built straight.

Now that we have points that can be manipulated into curved formations I will be able to reproduce something closer to the real thing.

 

So, can anyone advise how much curvature could reasonably be introduced into a crossover, using Wayne's kits?

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

 

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6 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

So, can anyone advise how much curvature could reasonably be introduced into a crossover, using Wayne's kits?

 

Hi Bob,

 

EM, 00-SF or Standard 00?

 

What's your minimum acceptable radius?

 

Martin.

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Hell Martin,

Thanks for getting back to me.

The area where the junction will be will have quite a gentle curve. Probably about 6' radius at the tightest.

The junction itself is just about straight but will then transition into into about 6' radius.

The crossovers will be at the start of the transition so the curve is likely to be much shallower than 6' radius.

So, if the tightest curve that the kits can accommodate is less than 6' than I know I'll have no trouble.

Regards,

Bob 

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31 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Bob,

 

EM, 00-SF or Standard 00?

 

What's your minimum acceptable radius?

 

Martin.

Hello Martin

I'm planning to make crossovers on much tighter curves than Bob (in OO-SF). A straight double track and a straight single track joining and transitioning into three tracks onto sweeping radii of 34", 31.75" and 28.75".

Hopefully I will also be able to curve Wayne's kits sufficiently?

Dave

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20 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

standard 00 gauge

 

Hi Bob,

 

00-DOGAI (Standard 00), 72" inner track radius, 7ft way (48.67mm) spacing for passing clearance, crossover using FinetraX B-7 LH turnouts:

 

00_dogai_b7_xover_72in.png.6d906130ec6c0e02f62d77ac76d02e1c.png

 

Smallest radius is 760mm (29.9") in the outer turnout.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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30 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

34", 31.75" and 28.75".

Hopefully I will also be able to curve Wayne's kits sufficiently?

 

Hi Dave,

 

While you can probably curve the FinetraX kits to that extent, the result is likely to be too tight for 00-SF:

 

00_sf_b7_on_34in.png.7163af7b3a3841e09f3a217335247c19.png

 

Putting the FinetraX B-7 turnout on a 34" radius curve means the inner radius will be down to 504mm (19.9") which is too tight for 00-SF (and very tight in 00-DOGAI). To put crossovers in such sharp curves you need to use longer turnouts such as a C-10 or longer.

 

However, if you can get the crossovers back into the transition curves, it should be doable.

 

Just try it in Templot and see -- Templot tells you what the radius will be.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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20 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Bob,

 

00-DOGAI (Standard 00), 72" inner track radius, 7ft way (48.67mm) spacing for passing clearance, crossover using FinetraX B-7 LH turnouts:

 

00_dogai_b7_xover_72in.png.6d906130ec6c0e02f62d77ac76d02e1c.png

 

Smallest radius is 760mm (29.9") in the outer turnout.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Martin,

 

That's smashing, thanks.

I can see how valuable Templot is but this sort of thing has always been beyond me.

 

Thanks for your help. Because of space constraints and because I always try to squeeze too much into what I have, I had decided on 30" minimum radius, in none scenic areas, so this smallest radius of 29.9" will be about perfect.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

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38 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Bob,

 

00-DOGAI (Standard 00), 72" inner track radius, 7ft way (48.67mm) spacing for passing clearance, crossover using FinetraX B-7 LH turnouts:

 

00_dogai_b7_xover_72in.png.6d906130ec6c0e02f62d77ac76d02e1c.png

 

Smallest radius is 760mm (29.9") in the outer turnout.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Hi Martin,

 

Will the timbering line up when using Finetrax B7 parts?

 

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5 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Will the timbering line up when using Finetrax B7 parts?

 

Hi Phil,

 

Line up with what? The timbers are in the prototype positions. According to the track spacing you use, the timbers will need to be adjusted where they conflict. The track spacing is determined by the radius, and passing clearance required.

 

Wayne has said that he intends to produce crossover kits with long timbers, to better represent prototype crossovers. It will probably be possible to curve them a bit, but not change the track spacing. Over to Wayne for more info.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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20 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Dave,

 

While you can probably curve the FinetraX kits to that extent, the result is likely to be too tight for 00-SF:

 

00_sf_b7_on_34in.png.7163af7b3a3841e09f3a217335247c19.png

 

Putting the FinetraX B-7 turnout on a 34" radius curve means the inner radius will be down to 504mm (19.9") which is too tight for 00-SF (and very tight in 00-DOGAI). To put crossovers in such sharp curves you need to use longer turnouts such as a C-10 or longer.

 

However, if you can get the crossovers back into the transition curves, it should be doable.

 

Just try it in Templot and see -- Templot tells you what the radius will be.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Thanks Martin

It's all coming back to me now. I had a go at Templot for this quite a while ago. And they were much longer turnouts to keep the minimum radius to 30". Sadly when I changed over from my sloooooowwww computer to a new one I cannot find the files I produced. Fortunately I did print out the design as can be seen on the photos. This was my first attempt and I knew that I would need to accurately get the layout interface positions and approach angles corrected before sitting this design in between them.

I guess I will need to make my own pointwork. Perhaps the Missenden track making course will come in handy after all.

I'm quite sure there may well be other parts of the layout where are can use Wayne's kits

Thanks for your help.

Dave

DSC05839.JPG.0d63009d5bdc34f36d83f09528775e3e.JPG

 

DSC05840.JPG.aa48afd6d241d9e468c1b999efcdbddb.JPG

 

DSC05841.JPG.2e52728214e7bcb5623fc5f33ee99193.JPG

 

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23 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Phil,

 

Line up with what? The timbers are in the prototype positions. According to the track spacing you use, the timbers will need to be adjusted where they conflict. The track spacing is determined by the radius, and passing clearance required.

 

Wayne has said that he intends to produce crossover kits with long timbers, to better represent prototype crossovers. It will probably be possible to curve them a bit, but not change the track spacing. Over to Wayne for more info.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Exactly my point.

 

Will the timbering of two curved Finetrax OO B7 turnouts line up enough to be convincing without changing the track spacing noticeably? The italicised text indicates where there is possibly some wriggle room.

 

Edit: And if we need the dedicated crossover kits to get the timbering right, will they be as amenable to curving at the basic turnouts?

 

I really hope Wayne has the answers!

 

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36 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Will the timbering of two curved Finetrax OO B7 turnouts line up enough to be convincing without changing the track spacing noticeably?

 

Hi Phil,

 

Sorry, I don't understand the question. These are KITS, not ready-made track pieces. You can cut the rails to whatever length you like.

 

If you place two B-7 bases at the standard 50mm track spacing for Standard 00 you would get this:

 

00_dogai_b7_spacing.png.215b67f2c80ae1491016b26043b79287.png

 

The timber spacing will match quite nicely, although the last few should of course extend across both tracks to be prototypical. If you cut the rails to the supplied templates, there would be a slight gap in the rails as shown. But no-one with any sense is going to do that, they would leave the rails over-long and cut them to length when laying the track. To repeat, these are KITS -- like all kits you build them to suit your requirements.

 

For 00-SF, modellers will likely want to use prototypical track spacing and adjust the timbering to fit, as on the prototype.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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11 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Phil,

 

Sorry, I don't understand the question. These are KITS, not ready-made track pieces. You can cut the rails to whatever length you like.

 

If you place two B-7 bases at the standard 50mm track spacing for Standard 00 you would get this:

 

00_dogai_b7_spacing.png.215b67f2c80ae1491016b26043b79287.png

 

The timber spacing will match quite nicely, although the last few should of course extend across both tracks to be prototypical. If you cut the rails to the supplied templates, there would be a slight gap in the rails as shown. But no-one with any sense is going to do that, they would leave the rails over-long and cut them to length when laying the track. To repeat, these are KITS -- like all kits you build them to suit your requirements.

 

For 00-SF, modellers will likely want to use prototypical track spacing and adjust the timbering to fit, as on the prototype.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Sorry, I hope I can be more cogent this morning...

 

Bob's question was about forming a crossover in 6ft or greater radius OO double track.

 

He doesn't say what track spacing he expects and I don't know of a "standard" double track spacing for OO (but I will  accept whatever you tell me because you are the expert). However, my thinking is that someone using Wayne's products to improve the realism of their track work will probably also want to achieve closer to scale double track spacing - allowing for the needs of clearance between tracks where needed.

 

At 6ft or greater radius I would expect workable track spacing to be close to 45mm.

 

So, to forming a crossover using Finetrax OO B7 turnouts in those conditions: The track spacing constraint controls the length and position of the rails and with Wayne's kits the position of the rails determines the position of the timbering. (Yes I realise that they are kits that you can tweak, modify, adapt to your needs. See below.)  Thus for 45mm spacing in straight track you get this:

735677913_FTOOB7crossing2.png.1b6115a12f7c82ae116b36350dc9a44c.png

 

The timbers don't align. (This graphic comes from a post earlier in the thread that Wayne responded to and his answer was that he's going to make crossover kits but at the moment we have to try to use the B7 turnouts.)

 

(Obviously on a curve at 45mm spacing the relative position of the timbers will be different, and maybe, fingers crossed, they might align better but I don't have the software to test that easily.)


To resolve this, the first, simplest, adjustment is to increase the track spacing locally at this crossing to make the timbers align. Then selectively remove timbers from the bases, partially or perhaps fully and replace with some crossing timbers.

 

So I guess I've answered my own question: The timbering will only align for certain track spacings and below 50mm some fettling will be necessary. It's relatively easy to work out what those spacings are for straight track but some experimentation/modelling would be needed to work out the spacings for crossovers in curved track.

 

Edited by Harlequin
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Wayne is also developing a crossover as one complete kit so the issue of timber spacings will be dealt with. These are great developments in terms of track building but we all need to remember it is Wayne working on his own and he has another business as well to run. Also he is developing the ranges across multiple scales gauges with an existing product range as well.

 

I know it’s hard but we all need patience. I like others want more but have to sit on my hands and wait.

 

Keith

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